Awd>1wd

[PurpleMystique]

it means that you're inadequate.

First I hear that in bed, and now here too?

 

[juspifool]

Anyway: screw the zetec. Focus SVT 2.3 Duratec FTW.

The SVT Focus has a Zetec...and a 2.0...

 

[striker2]

correct. 2L Zetec with a high compression/better flowing head, better cams with VCT on the intake cam, tuned 4-2-1 header, and a spiffy variable length runner intake manifold. puts out 170HP.

the 2.3L Duratec made 165HP its first year in the 03 Mazda 6. succeeding years saw a decreases in power down to its current state at 155HP (they kept making the TB smaller). now they have upped the displacment to 2.5L but only made it back to 165-170HP.

SVT Zetec > 2.3L Duratec


also, the weight difference between a Zetec and a v6 Duratec is about 65 lbs. i know it doesnt seem like much, but thats almost entirely over the FR suspension which will drasticly change the corner weights.

 

[Goumba]

I'll have a 3l ready to go in the car once I have three rallies done. I'm not going to do more than ten events in the contour so I'm not going to put a million dollars into it. After I decide to pull the plug on my contours pro rally days, I'll probabley get rid of it.

 

[qbcsvt]

I'll have a 3l ready to go in the car once I have three rallies done. I'm not going to do more than ten events in the contour so I'm not going to put a million dollars into it. After I decide to pull the plug on my contours pro rally days, I'll probabley get rid of it.

Better give up your blueprints too! Some other ppl might want an AWD Contour...... Ima have to look into the Jag!

- amyn

 

[Goumba]

Blueprints won't do most people much good. You really need about $6000 in special equipment to make the same level quality subframe that I did. I'm already thinking of redoing the lca's. But first I will test the existing ones to make sure that is a good decision. The test will be an almost nonstop two hours of workout. I will jump the car at least a dozen times in the two hours for good measure. For now the whole awd conversion is completely stopped since I was in a car crash a couple of days ago I'm in a bit of pain. That means no heavy lifting or hard work for a little while. Also, I have to dish out a $500 deductable to get my street car fixed so I'm now strapped for cash the rest of this month.

 

[Y2KSVT]

Also, I have to dish out a $500 deductable to get my street car fixed so I'm now strapped for cash the rest of this month.

I thought the accident was the other guy's fault? Why would you have to pay a deductable............ unless the other guy didn't have insurance?

Mark

 

[bhiggs89]

I still had to pay a $1000 deductable when I get hit in my T-Red. That was in August, and I still dont have that money back yet.

 

[Goumba]

If I want my car repaired now I'll have to fix it under my insurance. I will have to chase my refund of my deductable later.

 

[Adrian Thompson]

Wow, outstanding timing on this thread. I'm an infrequent visitor here at best and came looking for rallycross info and have harbored dreams of an AWD Contour for years. So I've got lot's of questions.

First Rally cross.

1. What do you recommend as a suspension set up? You Cardomain page lists a tarmac spec but not a dirt spec.
2. With stock or close to stock ride height do you need some form of sump guard?
3. Do you recommend rally tires or snow tires to start out? I've got SVT Focus brakes (and other mods that push me to M2 out of S2) so I need 16" wheels. Should I go back to stock brakes so I can fit 15" wheels and get used rally tires, or go for 16" Winterforce tires?
4. Any other tips/advice on rallycrossing a Contour?

Now AWD. I've wondered about this for years, but thought the best way to do it would be find an AWD Contour in the UK (I'm an ex-pat Brit) and bring over the trans/transfer cars, drive shaft, gas tank and complete rear subframe assembly. I also wondered about the Escort RS2000 4x4 as that had a similar set up with a 40:60 torque split (Contour was 50:50) and center LSD where the Contour was open.
So Questions for you.

1. If your just using X type trans/transfer case and rear diff are you getting rid of the coupler? If so I assume you now have no control over the torque split, correct?
2. How do you know it's a 42:48 torque split, I thought it was a system similar to haldex? I can't remember if the jag's hydraulic, viscous or electro mechanical, I think the later but it's been a couple of years since I looked into it)
3. Are you running 3 open diffs or do you have one or more LSD's?
4. Although you want to keep your 4x108 wheels, would the entire Jag rear subframe have bolted in to make it easier? IF so could you just use the whole jag front and rear suspension?
5. What are you doing for a fuel tank?

One more thing, if you going Rally America I thought you had to start in Production or Group 2? Not just an hp limit, but limited to FWD as well, or do you have a waiver?

I'm sure I've got a million more questions.

Thanks

 

[Goumba]

Answers
1.My car has my dirt settings listed as rally settings. Suspension setup is different every day I race. It is constantly evolving, and very course dependent. For a low budget enthusiast, I recommend Koni dampers with ground control coilovers. In addition to the springs that come with the ground controls, you will need a pair of ten inch long 225lb springs. The svt swaybars are a bit stiff for rallycross. I recommend swaybars from an se or even 4 cylinder model. I mostly don't even run swaybars off road though.
2.No sump guard is needed. I will develop a full front skidplate in the future however.
3.I recommend that you don't do anything to your car and learn how to drive first. Just find an event and give it a whirl. Then you'll see exactly what I mean. Most people consider themselves good drivers until they are amongst them. I was no different. Street tires will allow you car to loose control at slower speeds. From this you will learn car control. Think baby steps. It's better to learn how to get a car to slide and control it at 30mph instead of 50 mph. That when when you get it wrong, which you will do more than not at first, you'll mess up at a slower speed. When you are ready to upgrade your tires, go with rally tires. Tires are the number one upgrade for any car. SVTF brakes won't fit inside 15" wheels. You won't be put into m2 unless you strip your interior. Most mods will only put you in prepared front wheel drive/pf.
4.Replace svt bodywork with se bodywork if your ever going to see terrain that is more than 4 inches of bumps and ruts. I've seen some smooth rallycross sites, but most are rough and rut bad. This will be bad for low hanging svt body panels. And lsd is not very necessary, but will make the car faster and more controllable.
AWD answers
1.I am using the jag gearbox, transfer case, and rear diff. The only control that I have over front and rear bias is left foot braking with throttle, and handbrake with throttle. These are both driving techniques for an advanced to expert driving level.
2.I know it's a 42:58 torque split because automotive journalists asked jag of the split. Jag replied with 40:60 because they wanted to still "seem like" a rwd vehicle. So 40:60 or 42:58. Whatever. I've seen both on the internet. The center diff/ transfer case is a viscous coupling.
3.I know the front diff is open. The center diff is a viscous lsd. I don't know what the rear is.
4.Absolutely not! The jag rear subframe doesn't even come close to fitting in the contour. The front suspension of the jag is essentially the same and offers no added benefit.
5. I'm using the jag awd fuel tank.

In rally america i'll be running a light class. But I won't be running rally america. I'll be in NASA for a little while. Ther's some that I left out, but then there will be too much to be reading. Really. I could go on all day.

 

[FIND]

so when are you putting the intake tornado and ebay 50 horsepower chip on it? lol just kidding

 

[Goumba]

I'll order them now along with some miracle gas additive.

 

[CSVT_2004]

I'll order them now along with some miracle gas additive.

Don't forget your fuel line magnets as well...

 

[Adrian Thompson]

Answers
1.My car has my dirt settings listed as rally settings. Suspension setup is different every day I race. It is constantly evolving, and very course dependent. For a low budget enthusiast, I recommend Koni dampers with ground control coilovers. In addition to the springs that come with the ground controls, you will need a pair of ten inch long 225lb springs. The svt swaybars are a bit stiff for rallycross. I recommend swaybars from an se or even 4 cylinder model. I mostly don't even run swaybars off road though.
2.No sump guard is needed. I will develop a full front skidplate in the future however.
3.I recommend that you don't do anything to your car and learn how to drive first. Just find an event and give it a whirl. Then you'll see exactly what I mean. Most people consider themselves good drivers until they are amongst them. I was no different. Street tires will allow you car to loose control at slower speeds. From this you will learn car control. Think baby steps. It's better to learn how to get a car to slide and control it at 30mph instead of 50 mph. That when when you get it wrong, which you will do more than not at first, you'll mess up at a slower speed. When you are ready to upgrade your tires, go with rally tires. Tires are the number one upgrade for any car. SVTF brakes won't fit inside 15" wheels. You won't be put into m2 unless you strip your interior. Most mods will only put you in prepared front wheel drive/pf.
4.Replace svt bodywork with se bodywork if your ever going to see terrain that is more than 4 inches of bumps and ruts. I've seen some smooth rallycross sites, but most are rough and rut bad. This will be bad for low hanging svt body panels. And lsd is not very necessary, but will make the car faster and more controllable.
AWD answers
1.I am using the jag gearbox, transfer case, and rear diff. The only control that I have over front and rear bias is left foot braking with throttle, and handbrake with throttle. These are both driving techniques for an advanced to expert driving level.
2.I know it's a 42:58 torque split because automotive journalists asked jag of the split. Jag replied with 40:60 because they wanted to still "seem like" a rwd vehicle. So 40:60 or 42:58. Whatever. I've seen both on the internet. The center diff/ transfer case is a viscous coupling.
3.I know the front diff is open. The center diff is a viscous lsd. I don't know what the rear is.
4.Absolutely not! The jag rear subframe doesn't even come close to fitting in the contour. The front suspension of the jag is essentially the same and offers no added benefit.
5. I'm using the jag awd fuel tank.

In rally america i'll be running a light class. But I won't be running rally america. I'll be in NASA for a little while. Ther's some that I left out, but then there will be too much to be reading. Really. I could go on all day.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I fully understand my driving abilities and do not in anyway consider myself an expert driver. I consider myself a sold midpacker in a competitive setting or top 3rd of the pack at the local level if I attended more than 1 or 2 events a year. Back in the mid 90's I PAX'd in the top 10 locally, but that's when I actual drove something every weekend!!. I used to do lot's of autocross, track days, hillclimbs and racing. Now I'm a dad with two kids in school so the 'toy' budget is approx $0 All that was on sealed surfaces though, I've never tried the dirt. Years of watching rally on the TV, attending the Sno*Drift rally every January and off roading in the sand dunes has really got me interested in trying autocross. I've always said I have unfinished business with road racing as I spent more time fixing the POS than driving it, but now if I had the time, money and cajones I'd go and rally instead.

Rally cross tires. I hear you about just going out on what I have, but I need some kind of tires though. The car is sitting in a barn (has been for 6 months) with bald grocery getters on there. I don't even want to drive it on the street right now so I need something, anything for either autocross or rally cross. I just need to decide what I want to do.

Rally/AWD. Good luck, it looks like your one of the few people who have/will ever move beyond the dreaming/planning stage and actually do something like this, I'm impressed, really impressed. I've got some inkling of the amount of effort having built race cars and stitched two cars together to make one in the past, but man oh man I'm impressed with what your doing. Keep up the good work

Rally license/RA/NASA. Got ya, I bet this thing will be a blast on something like Rally NY or Rally TN where they have tarmac

 

[CrazyTalkSVT]

Looks good! Glad you went with DOM and Moly for tubing instead of the big "no no" Home Depot tubing bender with seamed pipe. :laugh:

 

[Goumba]

I hear you about just going out on what I have, but I need some kind of tires though. The car is sitting in a barn (has been for 6 months) with bald grocery getters on there. I don't even want to drive it on the street right now so I need something, anything for either autocross or rally cross. I just need to decide what I want to do.

If you just want to buy one set of tires for both, your going to have to make one bad compromise or another. Snow tires aren't half bad in rallycross, but would be horrible at an autocross. Street touring tires won't work well off road with their big tread blocks and shallow tread depth. When your ready to make a decision, just pm me for assistance.

Looks good! Glad you went with DOM and Moly for tubing instead of the big "no no" Home Depot tubing bender with seamed pipe. :laugh:

I know how to fabricate more than just stories. I have a crappy push bender and metal supply place up the road that sells nothing but seam welded stuff, but I would never use that stuff for a project like this. I also have a great metal fabricator to help me out with what I don't know and all the welding. His tig welding is second to none. He used to weld for several custom bike shops at once before the economy hit it hard.

Avery is the man

 

[Adrian Thompson]

If you just want to buy one set of tires for both, your going to have to make one bad compromise or another. Snow tires aren't half bad in rallycross, but would be horrible at an autocross. Street touring tires won't work well off road with their big tread blocks and shallow tread depth. When your ready to make a decision, just pm me for assistance.

I should make myself clear, I have to decide autocross OR rallycross, not a compromise for both. Autocross would be Hankooks, Rallycross would be??? I'm leaning towards Winterforce on the stock 16"'s for now. That way I could 'justify' it as a winter beater too and keep the Volvo out of the snow.

Thanks for you help and opinions, I appreciate it.

 

[TRicker]

sweet. i have a question though.

i have been looking into a jag X type 3.0 5spd sport model. what is holding me back, is the jag forums are all saying that the awd system isn't going to handle much HP over stock, or any real abuse. now your gonna use it in a rally car? should i not be listening to the forum members or what?

 

[Devanmc]

ok is it just me, or in pic 1 with the car sitting on this new rear subframe and such. the control arm bars dont look to be at the same angle. like one is flat and the other is angled. :shrug: