Stylin55_oh
CEG'er
And it is one of the ugliest timing covers I've seen!
very good point!
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3L turbo final round
- Thread starter BAD SVT
- Start date
very good point!
BAD SVT
Addicted CEG'er
wow.
wow.
so it turns out a rod knock was the least of my worries. heres what i found as i pulled apart the newly broken 3L:blackeye:
can someone tell me why the piston disintegrates like this? i'm guessing thats what's all down there in the magnet.
i just looked at the first popped motor that i posted earlier in this thread, and compared it with this one. Its the exact same piston!!!:shocked:
wow.
so it turns out a rod knock was the least of my worries. heres what i found as i pulled apart the newly broken 3L:blackeye:
can someone tell me why the piston disintegrates like this? i'm guessing thats what's all down there in the magnet.
i just looked at the first popped motor that i posted earlier in this thread, and compared it with this one. Its the exact same piston!!!:shocked:
TRicker
Hard-core CEG'er
well that's definately an 01-03 block. or an early 04. that has the small upper ring land. that's what happens with boost and thin ring lands mang!
the marks in the top of the piston could be from the corners of the rings chipping off and managing to pass upward to the top of the piston and get hammered into the head and the piston.
it could be worse..... at least you were still able to find your piston
the marks in the top of the piston could be from the corners of the rings chipping off and managing to pass upward to the top of the piston and get hammered into the head and the piston.
it could be worse..... at least you were still able to find your piston
BAD SVT
Addicted CEG'er
well that's definately an 01-03 block. or an early 04. that has the small upper ring land. that's what happens with boost and thin ring lands mang!
the marks in the top of the piston could be from the corners of the rings chipping off and managing to pass upward to the top of the piston and get hammered into the head and the piston.
it could be worse..... at least you were still able to find your piston
really? well, in that case, i'd STRONGLY advise against boosting this car to anyone who wants to. if u dont plan on using forged internals, keep it N/A. its become quite clear to me & inevitable now that this one i'm installing will break in a year or two as well... that is if the last 2 motors of mine are any indication. so what year were the ringlands updated then? cus the one i'm installing now is an 04. probably early 04. cuz the builddate on the motor says sept 03
BAD SVT
Addicted CEG'er
one more thing... after mocking up the oil cooler, i still couldnt see what i was told i'd need to cut off. it fit just fine:shrug:
SicSE
Veteran CEG'er
Same piston & same location of failure... just a different KIND of failure.
So I have to ask again... are these the same injectors that were installed on your other engine that had a cylinder #5 piston failure?
The missing piston chunk is typical overboost stuff, as already mentioned. However, the craters in the piston look more to me like what would happen from cool fuel droplets on a hot piston. I suppose they could also be from molten pieces of piston-chunk... but they really don't look like impact marks to me.
So I have to ask again... are these the same injectors that were installed on your other engine that had a cylinder #5 piston failure?
The missing piston chunk is typical overboost stuff, as already mentioned. However, the craters in the piston look more to me like what would happen from cool fuel droplets on a hot piston. I suppose they could also be from molten pieces of piston-chunk... but they really don't look like impact marks to me.
BAD SVT
Addicted CEG'er
yeah, thats what i meant, sorry. the lines do sit on the block as well. i guess i'll just cut it then. for anyone else who doesnt know, its a rectangular tab on the block corner, right below the valvecover. right side. bank two.
no, its not the same injector. i was running 24#s on the other. and when u say overboost, u mean excessive psi? or just using it all the time? cuz it sits at 9psi now.
SicSE
Veteran CEG'er
What are you running now?
Excessive PSI as related to your tune, and/or the threshold of your components... in this case the pistons. It could be overboost in general, (just too much for the pistons to take on a regular basis), in which, cylinder 5 just happened to be the one that failed both times, (though I'd call that a long shot at best). Not to say that the ring lands AREN'T sh*tty... but with the problem happening in the same place of the same cylinder or two different engines, it doesn't look to me like you can blame this entirely on the ring lands. It looks more to be isolated to that cylinder. As in, for some reason, (possibly due to your intake and/or cam configuration), that cylinder is seeing more boost than the others... expecting that fuel intake by the cylinders is equal per bank, (the cylinder looks like it was running lean as compared to the others, but that can happen from too much boost, just as easily as from too little fuel). Does the other bank tell a similar story, (middle cylinder leaner than the others)?
This seems to show a strong argument against using SVT cams with boost. You ARE using SVT cams right? What's your intake manifold configuration?
BAD SVT
Addicted CEG'er
first of all, the car isnt even driven on a regular basis. weekends only. 5k miles added since 2007 when it was installed. i'm running svt cams and upper. nautilus lower. the other bank was fine. no piston disintegration whatsoever. pistons smooth as babies' bottoms.
SicSE
Veteran CEG'er
Easy there... I calls it like I sees it.
That makes it even worse IMO. Something about that cylinder is allowing it to get more boost or less fuel. Number four looks like it's ingesting droplets of fuel as opposed to an atomized mixture of air & fuel, so if this didn't happen when it did in 5, it probably would not have taken much longer for something to happen with 4. If the other bank is as good as you say, I would take a GOOD look at your LIM as it mounts to the heads and your UIM. See if there maybe needs to be some port-matching done for smoother transitions. If that all is good, perhaps your O2 is giving a biased reading to the PCM for bank 2. I mean, there's a bunch of possibilities, but something is definitely not working right on that side.
BAD SVT
Addicted CEG'er
Easy there... I calls it like I sees it.
That makes it even worse IMO. Something about that cylinder is allowing it to get more boost or less fuel. Number four looks like it's ingesting droplets of fuel as opposed to an atomized mixture of air & fuel, so if this didn't happen when it did in 5, it probably would not have taken much longer for something to happen with 4. If the other bank is as good as you say, I would take a GOOD look at your LIM as it mounts to the heads and your UIM. See if there maybe needs to be some port-matching done for smoother transitions. If that all is good, perhaps your O2 is giving a biased reading to the PCM for bank 2. I mean, there's a bunch of possibilities, but something is definitely not working right on that side.
didnt mean anything by that bud
. i'd never bite the hand that helps me. lol. i'll check all that stuff out b4 putting it all back together. thanx.SicSE
Veteran CEG'er
Cool... definitely let us know what you find either way. You may be pioneering a resolution to a preventable problem.
TRicker
Hard-core CEG'er
bad:svt-
this new engine failure is NOT because of a lean condition or because of a tuning issue. it is because of:
READ THIS PLEASE, you need the better engine. you should have one by that build date. its all about the boost pressure.
http://www.rumodded.com/warmonger/pistons/pistons.htm
taken from the man who knows best, has done it all, and still rocks a crew cut :salute:
warmonger yo!
this new engine failure is NOT because of a lean condition or because of a tuning issue. it is because of:
READ THIS PLEASE, you need the better engine. you should have one by that build date. its all about the boost pressure.
http://www.rumodded.com/warmonger/pistons/pistons.htm
taken from the man who knows best, has done it all, and still rocks a crew cut :salute:
warmonger yo!BAD SVT
Addicted CEG'er
thanx for the link. however, i dont see a build date that u speak of. all i saw was pre200, 2000 and post 2000. and i'm pretty sure u already know the one i'm installing is an 04.
SicSE
Veteran CEG'er
I'm not discounting this theory, and I don't want to start a p*ssing match, but if it's all, and ONLY about boost, why are there only two damaged pistons? If everything is the way it should be, all cylinders should be seeing the same boost and fuel pressure. Given those beliefs, ALL pistons should show some damage if they're the weak link. Do you believe it's merely coincidence that the same piston failed in the same spot... and on different builds?
TourEnvy
Hard-core CEG'er
I think its just the easier theory, thats all. The hypothesis you propose includes more variables. Its easier to point at the pistons and say "no want" then to weed through air and fuel variables.
Im not discounting either theory as well.
Im not discounting either theory as well.
TRicker
Hard-core CEG'er
coincidence IMO. that is not a lean condition burndown and you can see that too, i'm not trying to insult your intelligence. the piston would be melted or dusted off on the top if it was a lean condition. the cylinder walls would be scored or something of that sort. the problem your seeing is definately because of added stress from boost. most likely a heat issue making the piston weak
contour2gq
CEG'er
I'm just curious was you using 3l heads and was the injectors you was using for a oval port or split port? Cause if you was using split port injectors in a oval port head maybe it's as sicse suggested that the one piston looks like the fuel wasn't atomized. Which is what would happen if using split port injectors In Oval port heads
BAD SVT
Addicted CEG'er
i didnt know there were oval and split port injectors. i thot there were just spray patterns. i've got 42#s that came with the kit, so i guess i'll have to ask joey.
edit- 42#s, not 45