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3L turbo final round

for the millionth time....

this wasnt a tuning issue. this wasnt a fuel issue. this is catastrophic engine failure. there are no melted pistons or scored cylinder walls. it is all BROKEN pieces of piston. boost pressure, excessive piston "slap", or a foreign object could have sparked this problem.

i think u're right. its not just that one piston thats damaged. i guess i'll turn the boost down back to 7.5 lbs and sell my two-stage boost controller. the extra 3-4 psi doesnt seem to be worth the short lifespan. one question tho tricker... why is the other bank ok. i.e not damaged at all?
 
the throttle body is on the drivers side always. its seems these banks get "more" air at times. i think that in a boosted application this evens out pretty well, but it seems that the cylinders in the middle manage to receive the most load, if you look at the pile of duratec engines our community has destroyed, many of them have ruined center banks. i don't get it either
 
A 3/8" NPT tap is huge for a feed. For a drain it would be fine. I'd say it's a 1/8" NPT for the feed.

you want to use the injector that match the LIM that is being used. the injectors are located in different location and thus have different spray angles.

the turbo feed is either -3 or -4 AN, I don't recall right now.

The SS Turbo feed line is 4AN. It takes a 1/8" NPT to 4AN adapter installed in the right head to make it work though. 4AN is still way way to large for the turbo feed, thus the 4AN fitting with the 1/16" hole in the adapter on the turbo side. Can't remember exactly, but I think that's about 1.5mm. Basically a VERY small hole!
 
if you look at the pile of duratec engines our community has destroyed, many of them have ruined center cylinders. i don't get it either
Sure you do... at least in regards to this particular failure. To be positive that this is a boost issue is to be positive that his intake configuration is putting more air into #5 than the other cylinders. Being able to positively blame the outcome on boost allows you to name the root cause to be a fixed part. The possibilities, (in this case), are pretty much limited to uneven port work, (if any porting has been done), or a manifold issue. Any portwork would be the first thing I would look at, but if none has been done, the LIM would be my next check since it's an aftermarket part. If the LIM is measured to have equal-sized outlets, and each LIM inlet matches up properly to the UIM outlets for each port, that leaves the UIM's design as the root cause.
 
Sure you do... at least in regards to this particular failure. To be positive that this is a boost issue is to be positive that his intake configuration is putting more air into #5 than the other cylinders. Being able to positively blame the outcome on boost allows you to name the root cause to be a fixed part. The possibilities, (in this case), are pretty much limited to uneven port work, (if any porting has been done), or a manifold issue. Any portwork would be the first thing I would look at, but if none has been done, the LIM would be my next check since it's an aftermarket part. If the LIM is measured to have equal-sized outlets, and each LIM inlet matches up properly to the UIM outlets for each port, that leaves the UIM's design as the root cause.

i looked around the LIM for inconsistencies in porting. i couldnt find any tho. the ports on the bottom of the lim is actually wider than the 3l head. in other words, i could see the edges of the opening on the heads by looking down the lim.
 
i looked around the LIM for inconsistencies in porting. i couldnt find any tho. the ports on the bottom of the lim is actually wider than the 3l head. in other words, i could see the edges of the opening on the heads by looking down the lim.
If you see an equal amount of head surface in all 6 ports when it's bolted to the heads, and things also look even when it's bolted to the UIM, you should seriously consider a different UIM, (being that you've ruled out fuel).

Just curious, do you still have EGR?
 
If you see an equal amount of head surface in all 6 ports when it's bolted to the heads, and things also look even when it's bolted to the UIM, you should seriously consider a different UIM, (being that you've ruled out fuel).

Just curious, do you still have EGR?

ok. this isnt good. my mind is starting to drift towards the 3L intakes SIMPLY TO TRY SUMTHN DIFFERENT. and yeah the EGR is still functional.
 
If you see an equal amount of head surface in all 6 ports when it's bolted to the heads, and things also look even when it's bolted to the UIM, you should seriously consider a different UIM, (being that you've ruled out fuel).

Just curious, do you still have EGR?

Sic i'm not challenging you...but i want to know where are you going with this?

(IMHO) Your saying the lim or UIM as just mentioned ports are different and are creating different flow patters before entering the cylinders? Which could be his problem to blowing these motors? Would it be soo minimal that the engine couldn't find lean/rich conditions in cylinders that over time would cause this error? I know of course the pcm can do so much. Couldn't he install individual sensors for each bank..like someone else has on here :)

Couldn't a simple bench flow test each port and see if this is indeed an issure? I assume a bench flow can measure these characteristics to help understand port changes and flows.

I'm just throwing these out here..because i think this is where your going with it.
 
the EGR is still functional.
This may be a stupid question and may not even matter, but the EGR feed tube is AFTER the turbo in the exhaust right?

Your saying the lim or UIM as just mentioned ports are different and are creating different flow patters before entering the cylinders? Which could be his problem to blowing these motors?
That was the deduction... I mean, with Tricker positively attributing the failure to boost, that seemed to be the only remaining explanation for the "how" part of the equation. Whether it were actual size differences in the ports or runners, and/or just better flow characteristics for the ports leading to that particular cylinder. It seems such a gross long shot to me, (especially in a boosted application), but that may be because I'm not so confident as to positively identify a root cause. In fact, I still think there is a very good chance that something else is going on here. But the runner discrepency theory is the only remaining possibility that I came up with, since they're solely blaming boost.

Would it be soo minimal that the engine couldn't find lean/rich conditions in cylinders that over time would cause this error?
Yes, and this is a really good point man. To SOLELY blame boost and positively say that there is not a fuel and/or tune problem, is saying that the cylinders were definitely getting enough fuel to NOT show an A/F issue. Therefor, the PCM would not see the problem. All this, of course, given the expectation that the O2 sensor is reading accurately, which we have been taking for granted.

BAD - how old are your upstream O2's and do you know what your fuel trims were from bank-to-bank? I'd also be interested to see any EGT discrepency between banks. Any chance you're running an EGT sensor for each bank and know what your temps usually were?

Couldn't he install individual sensors for each bank..like someone else has on here :)
I'm thinking you mean each cylinder? That is definitely one way that I personally, would completely rule out a fuel issue.

Couldn't a simple bench flow test each port and see if this is indeed an issue? I assume a bench flow can measure these characteristics to help understand port changes and flows.
I would expect so... as long as the manifolds could be bolted on for the test.
 
This may be a stupid question and may not even matter, but the EGR feed tube is AFTER the turbo in the exhaust right?
well, it's attached to the bank 1 exhaust headers. so yes, it is after the turbo.

BAD - how old are your upstream O2's and do you know what your fuel trims were from bank-to-bank? I'd also be interested to see any EGT discrepency between banks. Any chance you're running an EGT sensor for each bank and know what your temps usually were?

my sensors are all relatively new. all 4. the EGT sensor is only reading one bank tho. i dont remember which one. i'll check. but again, this car is driven 90% of the time at night. @ triple digit temps, i avoid driving it. as for the fuel trims, i have no idea. joey does. he has the datalog figures.
 
What size fuel feed line are you running? Also are you using a stock return fuel rail?

Considering these questions have not been answered I wouldn't rule out a fuel issue. The stock return fuel rail is tiny and would never keep up with the demands of boost efficiently imho but what do I know.
 
Okay, that's what I was looking for. You threw me off when you said it was plumbed into the bank 1 header, because that is before the turbo. I think we're on the same page now though. :cool:

IT IS plumbed into the bank 1 header. isnt that how all our cars are? no?

Considering these questions have not been answered I wouldn't rule out a fuel issue. The stock return fuel rail is tiny and would never keep up with the demands of boost efficiently imho but what do I know.

i forgot to get that info from joey. i'll do that. i'm not using a normal return line. its the fuel mod block that npg produced for the return style cars.
 
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