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3L turbo final round

I only went back 4 pages but have you checked the injectors for proper function? Might not be a bad to get them flow tested/cleaned/balanced?
Sorry to hear about the problems, I hope you get them fixed.
-J
 
Oh, no! Sorry you lost another motor! Man, is there any hope for a motor that doesn't crack under pressure?!?

For those who say, "Build it better," I ask you, "How?" Joey has informed me privately that most of the motors built with forged pistons have popped nonetheless. Seems like skirt slap is about the only consistent factor. I hope somebody is collecting data on these failures so that we can eventually get to the bottom (end) of the issue!
 
How do you build it better? Easy get some that knows how to measure correctly for the tolerances. correct piston bore rings right size bearings ect ect. If all that isn't perfect of course it's going to mess up.
 
SoopaCooga said:
For those who say, "Build it better," I ask you, "How?"
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I'm thinking it isn't a build issue.

SoopaCooga said:
Joey has informed me privately that most of the motors built with forged pistons have popped nonetheless.
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That seems to back up my theory that it's not the pistons... and probably not the build.

SoopaCooga said:
Seems like skirt slap is about the only consistent factor.
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Has anyone actually complained about slap? Not sure I'm buying that theory either.

contour2gq said:
How do you build it better? Easy get some that knows how to measure correctly for the tolerances. correct piston bore rings right size bearings ect ect. If all that isn't perfect of course it's going to mess up.
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This implies that everyone who's ever built a Contour didn't know what they were doing. Sorry, but that's just not the case.

BAD SVT said:
i thought a few on here said that reliability was not an issue with going turbo... looks like false info.
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Guess you have to consider the source of the info... Are they themselves boosted? if so, what kind of build are they running with how much boost? What are their driving habits? And no one likes to think about this one, but do the people giving the info have something to gain from making such statements?
 
SicSE said:
Guess you have to consider the source of the info... Are they themselves boosted? if so, what kind of build are they running with how much boost? What are their driving habits? And no one likes to think about this one, but do the people giving the info have something to gain from making such statements?
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yes they were boosted. i dont wanna start anything tho. its cool. i've counted my losses. i'll try once more.
 
SicSE said:
Guess you have to consider the source of the info... Are they themselves boosted? if so, what kind of build are they running with how much boost? What are their driving habits? And no one likes to think about this one, but do the people giving the info have something to gain from making such statements?
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Sic yes...warmonger was actually the first to go heavily boosted on the 3L application. The car ran for a long time and is still running strong. Which is in the hands of Ray. He was pushing 365 whp..at 8psi..and has mentioned on many occasions that going to 10psi hasn't been a problem. Warmoger also did his very own tuning for the cars.

Not to over step my self...but i'm pretty sure warmonger started to work with burrita with the tuning applications. Till burrita learned enough he does the current tunes now for our cars.

Sunniels old car which was a 2.5L was boasted and hit an incredible 400whp and 401wtq. Yes in a 2.5L it was one time psi hit...but the car sold to a local person here in the state. And IIRC is still running. And he runs the car between 7-10 psi. That was tuned by street flight also known as ADC in texas.

It def sounds like a flaw in somewhere. If the nobels run the same application 3.0L with forged internals for lower boast 8:5 to 1. That might be something you should be looking into buying yourself bad svt. Lower compression with the correct tuning might finally fix your problem.
 
Harrry said:
Sic yes...warmonger was actually the first to go heavily boosted on the 3L application. The car ran for a long time and is still running strong. Which is in the hands of Ray. He was pushing 365 whp..at 8psi..and has mentioned on many occasions that going to 10psi hasn't been a problem. Warmoger also did his very own tuning for the cars.

Not to over step my self...but i'm pretty sure warmonger started to work with burrita with the tuning applications. Till burrita learned enough he does the current tunes now for our cars.

Sunniels old car which was a 2.5L was boasted and hit an incredible 400whp and 401wtq. Yes in a 2.5L it was one time psi hit...but the car sold to a local person here in the state. And IIRC is still running. And he runs the car between 7-10 psi. That was tuned by street flight also known as ADC in texas.

It def sounds like a flaw in somewhere. If the nobels run the same application 3.0L with forged internals for lower boast 8:5 to 1. That might be something you should be looking into buying yourself bad svt. Lower compression with the correct tuning might finally fix your problem.
Click to expand...

it'd be cool if the owners of those cars u mentioned could chime in. maybe see what their setups are. here's what sic is trying to confirm; those cars u mentioned dont have the parts i have on mine. e.g npg fuel block & LIM. those variables make it a bit more tasking to pinpoint the "possible issue." Not that those parts are faulty or anything, but a combination of them could not be the best for our cars. i personally cant see how. but for all we know, it could be simply overboost. i only drive my car on weekends. but when i do, some fun is had:cool:. it could be that as well.
 
Harrry said:
and hit an incredible 400whp and 401wtq. Yes in a 2.5L it was one time psi hit...but the car sold to a local person here in the state. And IIRC is still running. And he runs the car between 7-10 psi. That was tuned by street flight also known as ADC in texas.QUOTE]

As far as I know Keith @ ADC who built the street-flight turbo kits, was always in Phoenix AZ?? Did they have a shop in Texas before?
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Chas said:
Harrry said:
and hit an incredible 400whp and 401wtq. Yes in a 2.5L it was one time psi hit...but the car sold to a local person here in the state. And IIRC is still running. And he runs the car between 7-10 psi. That was tuned by street flight also known as ADC in texas.QUOTE]

As far as I know Keith @ ADC who built the street-flight turbo kits, was always in Phoenix AZ?? Did they have a shop in Texas before?
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my bad...your right. lol ADC...starts with arizona :laugh: I got them confused with where warmonger lived which was in texas.
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BAD SVT said:
it'd be cool if the owners of those cars u mentioned could chime in. maybe see what their setups are. here's what sic is trying to confirm; those cars u mentioned dont have the parts i have on mine. e.g npg fuel block & LIM. those variables make it a bit more tasking to pinpoint the "possible issue." Not that those parts are faulty or anything, but a combination of them could not be the best for our cars. i personally cant see how. but for all we know, it could be simply overboost. i only drive my car on weekends. but when i do, some fun is had:cool:. it could be that as well.
Click to expand...

Well warmonger always kept his secondaries in place due to a difference of opinion with demonsvt :laugh:. Well I don't want to speak on behalf of him. Thats just from what i've seen over years of arguments between them two about the secondaries restrictions overall in the 3L application.

Warmonger would be the best person for you to pm. He's had soo many builds and has helped many others during the process. He is very knowledgeable overall and has great success with his 3.0L and his mathematical skills at presenting proper cfm flow data for the FI 3l split port application over the years.
 
ok maybe I chime in on the setup but once I clear up some things that were mentioned.
The fuel mod has a -6an braided line so it is not the fuel rail plus the returnless fuel rail is not the problem because the return style is smaller and I ran 410whp with plenty of fuel up top.

Next the piston slap on the walls are normal in all cars that is why they make teflon coating for the side of the pistons to reduce scarring because pressure vary across the pistons making the pistons tilt under high loads.

The weak point on our motors are the pistons you are already running a high compression motor that compresses air with more force then most then you are superheating the pistons with boost then creating higher pressures on the pistons ring lands. When you run the edge of the pistons capabilties there are small imperfection in the piston casting that make pistons weaker then others. I broke 3 ring lands in stock motor all were farthest banks 1 twice and I even blew number 2 too. The bank 2 gets more cooler air since the air stream is designed to flow over the engine down the back firewall therefore your intake temps will vary which is downfall about the SVT UIM.

The tuning we are running is 12.1 to 11. A/F and running 16 advance up top plenty safe for most FI applications. He also has a knock sensor that will sense knock if it was to much timing anyways. The first engine her blew had no revelance to this build because he ran lean bad like 14.1 or more having no idea of it so that motor was pinging big time and he thought it was normal back then. It was just coincidence that it seems it the same piston that broke ring land and the pits you see if the ring land beating holes in the piston when it broke free.

Realize you are running 400hp with stock pistons that made 200hp stock you double the output of the motor which is usually exceeds the recommendations of the build. The heat break down the piston over time and you slowly weaken the internals after extreme compression which also make heat before ignition.

The pistons are the weak point the rods can handle over 400hp no problem at all as long as you detonate all the time. Joey
 
BurritaSVT said:
ok maybe I chime in on the setup but once I clear up some things that were mentioned.
The fuel mod has a -6an braided line so it is not the fuel rail plus the returnless fuel rail is not the problem because the return style is smaller and I ran 410whp with plenty of fuel up top.

Next the piston slap on the walls are normal in all cars that is why they make teflon coating for the side of the pistons to reduce scarring because pressure vary across the pistons making the pistons tilt under high loads.

The weak point on our motors are the pistons you are already running a high compression motor that compresses air with more force then most then you are superheating the pistons with boost then creating higher pressures on the pistons ring lands. When you run the edge of the pistons capabilties there are small imperfection in the piston casting that make pistons weaker then others. I broke 3 ring lands in stock motor all were farthest banks 1 twice and I even blew number 2 too. The bank 2 gets more cooler air since the air stream is designed to flow over the engine down the back firewall therefore your intake temps will vary which is downfall about the SVT UIM.

The tuning we are running is 12.1 to 11. A/F and running 16 advance up top plenty safe for most FI applications. He also has a knock sensor that will sense knock if it was to much timing anyways. The first engine her blew had no revelance to this build because he ran lean bad like 14.1 or more having no idea of it so that motor was pinging big time and he thought it was normal back then. It was just coincidence that it seems it the same piston that broke ring land and the pits you see if the ring land beating holes in the piston when it broke free.

Realize you are running 400hp with stock pistons that made 200hp stock you double the output of the motor which is usually exceeds the recommendations of the build. The heat break down the piston over time and you slowly weaken the internals after extreme compression which also make heat before ignition.

The pistons are the weak point the rods can handle over 400hp no problem at all as long as you detonate all the time. Joey
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thanx for chiming in joey. like i mentioned earlier in the thread, the A/F was on point. i just wanna tie up all loose ends b4 i put this motor in.
 
BAD SVT said:
i dont wanna start anything tho.
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Nor do I... it was just something to think about. :cool:

BurritaSVT said:
piston slap on the walls are normal in all cars that is why they make teflon coating for the side of the pistons to reduce scarring because pressure vary across the pistons making the pistons tilt under high loads.
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Just wanted to add that slap is most apparent and severe on a cold start. Once the engine is warmed up, it goes away on all but the worst cases.

BurritaSVT said:
The bank 2 gets more cooler air since the air stream is designed to flow over the engine down the back firewall therefore your intake temps will vary which is downfall about the SVT UIM.
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This statment makes not sense at all to me. The proximity of the intake to the heads and even hood, coupled with the cramped engine compartment and a lack of airflow is not going to allow for drastic intake temp differences between banks... ESPECIALLY since he's not running secondaries.

BurritaSVT said:
the pits you see if the ring land beating holes in the piston when it broke free.
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I disagree. They don't look anything like impact marks to me. Besides, #4 has the same marks, but no broken ring land.
 
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