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Injector questions. Going from 17# to...?

Tex said:
If you don't know what you're doing, do NOT attempt to custom tune your car, or at least maybe take an Internal Combustion Engine theory class at your school. In addition, you'll need the software to program with the Xcal.
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Yeah it's ok...I am a junior in the Automotive Engineering and Technology program here at Ferris. I am not saying I know everything but I know the teachers that know everything so they will help me out. So buying the Xcal or the Livewire Handheld system would work?
 
Brokendown said:
Yeah it's ok...I am a junior in the Automotive Engineering and Technology program here at Ferris. I am not saying I know everything but I know the teachers that know everything so they will help me out. So buying the Xcal or the Livewire Handheld system would work?
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you need the Xcal and then you need the PC program to change the tune and upload it to the Xcal. from there you use the Xcal to replace the tune on the PCM.
 
blu_fuz said:
Good info guys.

Yes, I was getting a tune that's why I asked.

I am unsure if my 17# injectors are EV1. Something is different and "top feed/bottom feed" comes to mind, but I am not sure what that changes in my application.

I will do a really good documented swap for the other '95 3L owners that retain the OBD1 system.

This is what I am thinking will happen:
-fuel injector clip won't fit
-splicing 19# or 22# or 24# injector harness will have to happen
-intake spacer will be needed because the injector splicing will take up too much room

After everything is swapped I expect the car to really run like crud until it is tuned. I have a 4 selection SCT Eliminator chip and can get 3 tunes "mail order" for $175.

I have a wideband O2 sensor now so I can atleast give some feedback on AFR to get the tunes correct. So basically, if I stick with the E0 injectors and harness, I only have to front $175 for my tunes and I am done. If I get the 22#-24# I will have added cost of approx $100-$150 and might not have good results with the tuning.
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The EO rail and injectors should be straight swap AFAIK. At least they were on my svt manifolds - 96 tour swap. The plug ins are the same on both the bottom feed and top feed injector. Only mod needed was the fuel line had to be moved about 1/2" because it was too short.

Wouldn't it be easier to just unplug one injector and then see what different injectors plug right in?

Also, because of the ported setup, does it really matter whether the injectors are split port or oval port? FWIW, 24lb split port injectors are easily found at the wreckers in my
area.
 
enduro said:
Also, because of the ported setup, does it really matter whether the injectors are split port or oval port?
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its very important. the spray angle is completely different between the split port and oval port injectors. one should not use the oval port injectors in a split port. also split port injectors shouldn't be used on a oval port, although some have and they do work but it isn't optimal.
 
But there are ported engines setups with oval injectors and others with SVT injectors. So which is better?
 
enduro said:
But there are ported engines setups with oval injectors and others with SVT injectors. So which is better?
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a ported 3L used the stock lim, therefore the split port injectors should be used. using the oval port injectors in the split port would most likely cause fuel to run down the lim walls because of the wide spray angle/difference in location.
 
BrApple said:
a ported 3L used the stock lim, therefore the split port injectors should be used. using the oval port injectors in the split port would most likely cause fuel to run down the lim walls because of the wide spray angle/difference in location.
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Then why are people even discussing using the 24lb injectors? The only real valid choices would be either the svt's injectors or the early taurus ones.
 
enduro said:
Then why are people even discussing using the 24lb injectors? The only real valid choices would be either the svt's injectors or the early taurus ones.
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if you can find 24# injectors with a zero spray angle, if using in a split port LIM then they can be used ... I have no idea if they even exist.
 
You know what i cant seem to find out using your stuff below, is if the green svt injectors are different flow rates than the orange ones. The best i have done is find the part numbers,

ford: XL2E-9F593-B5A

Bosch: 0-280-155-911

but i cant find the flow rates anywhere.



striker2 said:
this is where i agree with you. if he is going to get a mail order tune, from say NPG, then just stick with the 19s since it has been done so many times. yes, your pushing the limits of them but it seems to be easier to get the car running right with them on a mail order tune. If he is going to get a dyno tune some place then go with the 24s as they will be able to better see whats going on with the car since its in front of them.




here is some more info I found.

according to these 2 sites
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/FORD_PASSENGER_CAR_FUEL_INJECTORS.html

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

from the first site, the 98 SVTC uses a Bosch 0-280-155-710 fuel injector. looking that part number up on the second site reveals its only rated at 18.25lbs/hr flow at 43.5PSI. with a BSFC of .52 at 95% duty cycle, each one is good for ~33.3 HP, times 6 gets you to 199.8HP.

the 96-98 duratec Taurus uses a Bosch 0-280-155-715 injector. they are rated at 22.45lbs/hr at 43.5PSI. with the same .52 BSFC and 95% duty cycle, each one is good for about 41HP, times 6 is 246HP.

while i cant seem to verify the injectors used in the later oval port 3Ls, i suspect they are Bosch 0-280-158-075 which are rated at 24lbs/hr at 43.5PSI. these are good for about 43.8HP, times 6 is 262.8.

Also, apparantely the 98 SEs are listed as having Bosch 0-280-155-725 injectors. those are listed as ALSO being rated at 18.25lbs/hr at 43.5PSI :shrug:

obviously, depending on your exact BSFC depends on how much HP you can get out of each injector at a given flow rate. a more effecient engine with a lower BSFC will be able to make more power on each injector.
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BrApple said:
if you can find 24# injectors with a zero spray angle, if using in a split port LIM then they can be used ... I have no idea if they even exist.
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How can you recommend him to find a part or even talk about a part that to you doesn't even know exists :help:
 
Harrry said:
How can you recommend him to find a part or even talk about a part that to you doesn't even know exists :help:
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because I haven't shopped for fuel injectors so I don't know whats out there. so if someone wants 24# injectors then they should search for the ones that would be correct for the application. if they are not out there then the next best alternative should be used.
 
The 22# from the split port taurus sound like the best choice. The only reason I feel comfortable with the 19# is because the tuners that work with our cars know 19# performance like the back of their hands and most are tuning a OBDII.

If I go with 22# I might be in for a world of hurt for downtime, rough tunes, and the cost of tuning just because the infamiliarity with the 3L in a OBDI. Does that seem like logical thinking?
 
I will be getting into this pretty soon. Winter is just about here, so the car will be sitting.

I found this post by mosh, old but good from here http://www.contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?t=11847&highlight=orange+injectors :

mosh said:
I have an entire 98 SVT motor in my 95, so by default I have the 98 LIM. Aside from numerous other minor changes (like making the LIM Vacuum Operated) I made the stock wiring and stock fuel system hook up to SVT injectors and fuel rail etc.

So....my experience that's relevant to this discussion is that you can certainly plug the 95 connectors onto later model injectors by turning them around. They still fit neatly into the bracket.
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So, here is my list of things I have:
-SVT vac operated LIM
-Orange 19# injectors and return fuel rail
-E0 injector harness(might/might not need if '95 harness works on orange injectors)
-SCT eliminator 3 tune chip(no tunes yet)
 
from the pictures it looks like the 95 injectors are still EV1 style so using the orange SVT injectors shouldnt be a problem, since they are also EV1. the difference between the 95 and 96+ injectors is that the 95s are side feed while the 96+ injectors are top feed. then when they went to returnless Ford started using EV6 connectors.
 
Yeah, that's what I am excited about. The '95 injector harness connection looks identical to that of the E0 orange 19#. Hopefully it is and I don't have to mess with splicing wires/connectors. I revived this thread so it can eventually be stickied with all the info and a possible "how to" for the '95 V6 crowd.
 
I removed the crummy pics from above and just took fresh pics tonight of things I have laying around. Only pics I need yet are of stock '95 V6 injector harness and '95 vac operated LIM. Based off what I see now, the E0 injectors will clip right into the '95 harness just turned 180*. That combined with a vac operated SVT LIM, and E0/return style fuel rail I should be ready to tune.


(from left to right) 1995 V6 return style 17# injector, 1998/1999 SVT return style orange 19# injector, 1999/2000 SVT returnless style green 19# injector
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1995 Return
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1998/1999 Return
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1999/2000 Returnless
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3 types of fuel rails, same order from left to right ('95, '98, '00)
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1995 V6 fuel rail and fuel line connections
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1998 svt orange return fuel rail and fuel line connections
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12-3-09013.jpg
 
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