I should have some comparison pictures between the Spec Stage 3 setup I'm bringing to the swap out and the clutchNet setup. I don't think we'll have a stock version there though. We should have lots of pictures of everything this weekend.
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another Spec Stage 3+ failure
- Thread starter BrApple
- Start date
I should have some comparison pictures between the Spec Stage 3 setup I'm bringing to the swap out and the clutchNet setup. I don't think we'll have a stock version there though. We should have lots of pictures of everything this weekend.
JoeM
Veteran CEG'er
Even AFTER all my warning of NOT installing Spec 3+'s you guys did any way.
Guess what... All of you are having the same issue.
Its a HORRIBLE design. ITs a Piece of Garbage product and Spec is a piece of Garbage company.
They wont stand behind their equipment because they KNOW its junk.
I will just leave THIS here... Scroll down to my pictures.
Guess what... All of you are having the same issue.
Its a HORRIBLE design. ITs a Piece of Garbage product and Spec is a piece of Garbage company.
They wont stand behind their equipment because they KNOW its junk.
I will just leave THIS here... Scroll down to my pictures.
elraido
I kant speel
should almost merge the threads.
elraido
I kant speel
I wouldn't worry about it. With everyone else's Spec blowing up, I doubt it was the trannys fault. You have the exact same problems everyone else has had.
I know but its funny none the less. look at the SVT that got the steering wheel from buckshots rolled SVT .... that car was also rolled ....
blu_fuz
New Member Classroom vulture
Holy ????, your freaking me out...... I have the exhaust, wheels, drivers seat, and tires from tour_racer00's car :blackeye:. ????:nonono:
biminiLX
Hard-core CEG'er
My friend's reply:
"As for the clutch stuff, I believe those contours don't have a pilot bearing. We see issues with ours and other brands of clutches when used on non-piloted setups like that all the time... The lack of a pilot bearing/bushing allows the input shaft to walk under torque and acceleration/deceleration. In fact, it goes back and forth when you accel and decel. The more miles on the car, the worse they get; it's due to a worn input bearing. The eveidence of this "shaft walk" is seen where those springs in the disk have "wobbled" their way around in their retainer plates (see pic below)... and you can see they have worn their way out. I've seen some of the disks with the "captured" springs, but it still allows the springs to wear out within the retainer plate and the loose springs still get lodged and jammed in sideways and break. Believe it or not, I've actually seen these occurrences on mitsubishi eclipses more than anything because they are 4wd and turbocharged, sometimes pushing upwards of 500+hp... with NO PILOT BEARING! That pilotless design was never intended to see that kind of loading. We see all kinds of problems with those at high power becasue people are not on top of their transmission. The best fix is to make sure the transmissions are gone through and that the input shaft and bearings are at the tightest possible tolerance regarding their "end-play" allowance. Those are the ones that get the longest life out of a clutch with no pilot bearing. Another way to remedy it is to just get a disk with no springs. Instead of ordering the Stage 3+, it would be called the Stage 4+ which is a solid-hub version with the full-faced "carbon semi-metallic" lining. It's a little more aggressive on the engagement, but without the springs, the disk sort of acts as a pilot for the shaft and is much more rigid. And no springs to wear through the carrier from shaft-walk. But I still recommend having the endplay checked on all transmissions when they're out of the car.
We have springs exactly like these in V8 cars making 700ftlbs torque. That's why we use the same springs, hub, and carrier from stage 1 up to stage 3+. The other disk I saw in the thread looked like it had a rivet pull up and cause some problems, that is an entirely different situation and SPEC usually addresses it differently with a repair or replacement, as long as it's not too far out of warranty. SPEC has 120 day warranty. For comparisson, I've seen a 90 day warranty on another big brand clutch company. SPEC is very realistic with their replacement and warranty policy... it simply cannot be "free lifetime replacement" which some people seem to want. SPEC does a good job with helping customers out and often times offers discounts to repeat customers and anyone who has had problems with their setups."
Hope this helps.
-J
"As for the clutch stuff, I believe those contours don't have a pilot bearing. We see issues with ours and other brands of clutches when used on non-piloted setups like that all the time... The lack of a pilot bearing/bushing allows the input shaft to walk under torque and acceleration/deceleration. In fact, it goes back and forth when you accel and decel. The more miles on the car, the worse they get; it's due to a worn input bearing. The eveidence of this "shaft walk" is seen where those springs in the disk have "wobbled" their way around in their retainer plates (see pic below)... and you can see they have worn their way out. I've seen some of the disks with the "captured" springs, but it still allows the springs to wear out within the retainer plate and the loose springs still get lodged and jammed in sideways and break. Believe it or not, I've actually seen these occurrences on mitsubishi eclipses more than anything because they are 4wd and turbocharged, sometimes pushing upwards of 500+hp... with NO PILOT BEARING! That pilotless design was never intended to see that kind of loading. We see all kinds of problems with those at high power becasue people are not on top of their transmission. The best fix is to make sure the transmissions are gone through and that the input shaft and bearings are at the tightest possible tolerance regarding their "end-play" allowance. Those are the ones that get the longest life out of a clutch with no pilot bearing. Another way to remedy it is to just get a disk with no springs. Instead of ordering the Stage 3+, it would be called the Stage 4+ which is a solid-hub version with the full-faced "carbon semi-metallic" lining. It's a little more aggressive on the engagement, but without the springs, the disk sort of acts as a pilot for the shaft and is much more rigid. And no springs to wear through the carrier from shaft-walk. But I still recommend having the endplay checked on all transmissions when they're out of the car.
We have springs exactly like these in V8 cars making 700ftlbs torque. That's why we use the same springs, hub, and carrier from stage 1 up to stage 3+. The other disk I saw in the thread looked like it had a rivet pull up and cause some problems, that is an entirely different situation and SPEC usually addresses it differently with a repair or replacement, as long as it's not too far out of warranty. SPEC has 120 day warranty. For comparisson, I've seen a 90 day warranty on another big brand clutch company. SPEC is very realistic with their replacement and warranty policy... it simply cannot be "free lifetime replacement" which some people seem to want. SPEC does a good job with helping customers out and often times offers discounts to repeat customers and anyone who has had problems with their setups."
Hope this helps.
-J
JoeM
Veteran CEG'er
The transmission was fully rebuilt prior to clutch installation. Diff, gears, bearing, EVERYTHING was gone through. This was done by a REPUTABLE race shop...They knew what they were doing.My friend's reply:
"As for the clutch stuff, I believe those contours don't have a pilot bearing. We see issues with ours and other brands of clutches when used on non-piloted setups like that all the time... The lack of a pilot bearing/bushing allows the input shaft to walk under torque and acceleration/deceleration. In fact, it goes back and forth when you accel and decel. The more miles on the car, the worse they get; it's due to a worn input bearing. The eveidence of this "shaft walk" is seen where those springs in the disk have "wobbled" their way around in their retainer plates (see pic below)... and you can see they have worn their way out. I've seen some of the disks with the "captured" springs, but it still allows the springs to wear out within the retainer plate and the loose springs still get lodged and jammed in sideways and break. Believe it or not, I've actually seen these occurrences on mitsubishi eclipses more than anything because they are 4wd and turbocharged, sometimes pushing upwards of 500+hp... with NO PILOT BEARING! That pilotless design was never intended to see that kind of loading. We see all kinds of problems with those at high power becasue people are not on top of their transmission. The best fix is to make sure the transmissions are gone through and that the input shaft and bearings are at the tightest possible tolerance regarding their "end-play" allowance. Those are the ones that get the longest life out of a clutch with no pilot bearing. Another way to remedy it is to just get a disk with no springs. Instead of ordering the Stage 3+, it would be called the Stage 4+ which is a solid-hub version with the full-faced "carbon semi-metallic" lining. It's a little more aggressive on the engagement, but without the springs, the disk sort of acts as a pilot for the shaft and is much more rigid. And no springs to wear through the carrier from shaft-walk. But I still recommend having the endplay checked on all transmissions when they're out of the car.
We have springs exactly like these in V8 cars making 700ftlbs torque. That's why we use the same springs, hub, and carrier from stage 1 up to stage 3+. The other disk I saw in the thread looked like it had a rivet pull up and cause some problems, that is an entirely different situation and SPEC usually addresses it differently with a repair or replacement, as long as it's not too far out of warranty. SPEC has 120 day warranty. For comparisson, I've seen a 90 day warranty on another big brand clutch company. SPEC is very realistic with their replacement and warranty policy... it simply cannot be "free lifetime replacement" which some people seem to want. SPEC does a good job with helping customers out and often times offers discounts to repeat customers and anyone who has had problems with their setups."
Hope this helps.
-J
The disc that the car was in, made 190WHP... There no way in hell that its making too much power. (its not a turbo, awd eclipse...)...
It failed almost immediatly.
He was out over $700 between flywheel and clutch.. Specs offer... $25 off a clutch. They wouldnt do anything for the flywheel...
:shrug:
I know i personally will NEVER run a spec clutch.
my only thing with that is the mtx I am using has around 60k max on it and was rebuilt 14k miles ago and it was inspected 7k miles ago before it was installed into my car. plus the fact a tappered bearing it used on the input shaft. and that also leaves the difference in the rockwell C hardness test results too.
elraido
I kant speel
And I highly doubt LivinSVT would leave the input shaft on my car wobble when he redid most everything including a different final drive on it. That also doesn't explain why I was able to go over 200K miles on a stock SE clutch, or 140K on my last SVT. And why it is only happening to spec.
the stock clutches have alot more give in the materials used to connect the hub to the clutch disk. since the Spec needs to be stiffer you can say that the play is being absorbed by the materials.
but I agree and raised that point before. if input shaft wobble or play was an issue then my 215K mile mtx should have distroyed the clutch along time ago. And I'm not afraid to bring it near redline and shift hard, as a clutch should be able to take that.
now since the joining of the spline to the hub has to be stronger then the materials would also need to be stronger to take the loading. and again it was found on my clutch that the material is softer then stock. how much more and where does it fall on a yeild or fatique curve, I am not sure because I don't know what the materials are.
but I agree and raised that point before. if input shaft wobble or play was an issue then my 215K mile mtx should have distroyed the clutch along time ago. And I'm not afraid to bring it near redline and shift hard, as a clutch should be able to take that.
now since the joining of the spline to the hub has to be stronger then the materials would also need to be stronger to take the loading. and again it was found on my clutch that the material is softer then stock. how much more and where does it fall on a yeild or fatique curve, I am not sure because I don't know what the materials are.
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KAOS_3.0
Hard-core CEG'er
I'd say the hardness tests throw the dirt on the coffin here guys
why in the hell would a part rated for more hp/tq have the bottle nec of softer materials between point a and point b?
junk
so has any one done any relevant materials data compilation on any of the alternatives?
my se flywheel/pp with a diy resurface isn't going to hold up forever
why in the hell would a part rated for more hp/tq have the bottle nec of softer materials between point a and point b?
junk
so has any one done any relevant materials data compilation on any of the alternatives?
my se flywheel/pp with a diy resurface isn't going to hold up forever
KyleQ
Hard-core CEG'er
Very interesting stuff - my car continues to vibrate and I'm still driving it every day, just pull it out of 5th and put it back in when the RPM's drop and most of the time I can get the vibes to go away, if not repeat the process.
I'm wondering what the inside of my transmission is going to look like - certain days it seems to be flawless deep into 4th gear, other days I have troubles getting it to run smoothly at 60....
When I pull the transmission and crack it open to install upgraded shift forks (firs time I had my 00' apart I found that it didn't have the upgraded forks) I'll take a close look at the bearings - probably have them replaced by my transmission shop.
All in all SPEC has let us down and I don't think anyone should purchase a 3+ after hearing of this. Why all of a sudden do we have so many failures? Some people's clutches don't make it past 10K and I got over 55K on mine, but my 105 mile round trip to work and back is responsible for that. This clutch should have never failed with the amount of power I am putting down - 100% pathetic that the clutch failed. :nonono:
I'm wondering what the inside of my transmission is going to look like - certain days it seems to be flawless deep into 4th gear, other days I have troubles getting it to run smoothly at 60....
When I pull the transmission and crack it open to install upgraded shift forks (firs time I had my 00' apart I found that it didn't have the upgraded forks) I'll take a close look at the bearings - probably have them replaced by my transmission shop.
All in all SPEC has let us down and I don't think anyone should purchase a 3+ after hearing of this. Why all of a sudden do we have so many failures? Some people's clutches don't make it past 10K and I got over 55K on mine, but my 105 mile round trip to work and back is responsible for that. This clutch should have never failed with the amount of power I am putting down - 100% pathetic that the clutch failed. :nonono:
KAOS_3.0
Hard-core CEG'er
whats most bothering is that they continue to insist that there is some other problem causing their junk to fail.
obviously an entire community on the internet is retarded, we apparently all became retarded after they "revised" their product
I say we do a campaign over the internet for a boycot of any of their products. they'll either stop making garbage, or go out of bussiness. it worked on huyndai in the early 90's
obviously an entire community on the internet is retarded, we apparently all became retarded after they "revised" their product
I say we do a campaign over the internet for a boycot of any of their products. they'll either stop making garbage, or go out of bussiness. it worked on huyndai in the early 90's
starjammir
Hard-core CEG'er
Maybe this is what my vibrating is in my car. Seems to happen at over 55 in 5th gear.
KyleQ
Hard-core CEG'er
Could be - but my vibration isn't necessarily speed related, more of a RPM/load based vibration. Now once in awhile I getting a burning clutch smell, something is loose int here and causing trouble...
Hopefully it isn't your clutch - this weekend I just finished up another transmission swap job... :crazy:
although I don't want to I am going with the clutchnet red 6 puck disk and red pressure plate. I want to know that its going to hold the power and I'll just have to deal with the driveability of a 6 puck. I hope to work with clutchnet to get a full face red disk made but for now I want my car back on the road. That and I sent some emails about the custom setup and have not heard back as of yet.
KyleQ
Hard-core CEG'er
Thanks for the update - I'd rather not have to deal with the 6 puck either...