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another Spec Stage 3+ failure

What were the signs of clutch failure? Mine has been squeaking for some time - thought to be serpentine belt noise on shift, but now I am doubting that. I started getting some drive line vibration yesterday - some pretty wicked vibration over 3500 RPM to the point of not wanting to push it any further.. Push in the clutch and the vibration goes away... :nonono: Fawk'n clutch!!!

This morning I was getting some vibration, so I slipped the clutch a bit and it seems to get better, then slip it some more and it went back to where it was... Interestingly enough if I push the car HARD, I mean WOT deep into the triple digits it seems fine - just the normal driving makes it way bad. Driving slow in 3rd or 4th will normally make the car want to buck, but if you keep your foot out of it you can slowly accelerate easily - not anymore, the vibrations are horrible trying to do that now...


So here in lies the question - what clutch & pp package to use.

Yellow "SMOOTH LOCK" MARCEL SPRUNG HUB CLUTCH DISC
organic_sprung01.jpg

Liking this as it is full faced and I drive through rush hour ever day - wonder if it will hold up to a turbo setup pushing 250+ TQ?

Yellow SPORT, "FIBER-CARBON" SPRUNG HUB CLUTCH DISC
fiber_carbon_sprung01.jpg

This looks like it will be more of a brutal choice for a daily driven car through rush hour - this should have no issues running 250+ TQ

Yellow PERFORMANCE PRESSURE PLATES
pressure_plate_yellow01.jpg

Wondering if I should get another PP or run the SPEC 3+ PP depending on it's condition. No interest in running the Red 2XRace death PP

Damnit - decisions decisions...

My issues has to be clutch related - if I push in the clutch the vibration goes away and it is engaged RPM dependent.. If not the clutch - could be be bearing issues inside the transmission?
 
well what I noticed now that I think about it is I started getting alot of clutch chatter. like pulling up the driveway into the garage after stopping. it was so bad it was shaking the whole car. it didn't do that before. i might have been slipping the clutch to much or to little although I am consistant most of the time. I don't believe it made much of any other noise other then the previously discribed whirling/grinding sound on take off. but that could have been from the small springs floating around in the bell housing.

I knew it was done when i couldn't shift with the engine running.
 
I'm going to jump in here because I'm currently looking for a clutch that's going to hold the power of a Supercharged 3L (Cougar). Since Spec is having some issues and I need this setup (clutch, pp & TOB) by the weekend of the 11th I was looking at Clutchnet as well. I've called multiple times but haven't been able to speak to Oleg yet since he never seems to be there.

When I do finally get a hold of him (hopefully today), I believe I'd like to ask him for a setup that is full faced but is made with the Red version compound they use w/ the enclosed spring design. Any opinions on something like that? The car will be driven several times a week and may end up being my DD for a little while so I want something that isn't a pita to drive.

Has anyone looked into a Clutchmasters setup? I have one on the car now although I have no idea what stage it is since I didn't own the car when it was installed. They do make a Stage 3 and claim it will hold 110% more than stock.
 
i like the idea of having a full face clutch with the closed window design that is similar to the red 6-puck. that would basically be the same as the stage 3+ from Spec. If they can make something like that I would be willing to try it also. the only difference is the clutchnet red disk is ceramic and the spec 3+ is carbon semi-mettalic.

I have been thinking about going with the fiber carbon disk and the red pressure plate to make sure there is ample clamping force.

although when I called clutch net I was advised to use the yellow pressure plate as it would be to heavy for extensive driving. however with it being a hydraulic clutch I can't see it being as bad as a mechanical clutch.

please let me know what they say.


also 110% of stock would be ~420 and I think that number is cutting it alittle close. but I believe that is what the Spec Stage 3 is rated for and the 3+ was suppose to be able to take like 100 more.
 
KyleQ said:
So here in lies the question - what clutch & pp package to use.

Yellow "SMOOTH LOCK" MARCEL SPRUNG HUB CLUTCH DISC
organic_sprung01.jpg

Liking this as it is full faced and I drive through rush hour ever day - wonder if it will hold up to a turbo setup pushing 250+ TQ?

Yellow SPORT, "FIBER-CARBON" SPRUNG HUB CLUTCH DISC
fiber_carbon_sprung01.jpg

This looks like it will be more of a brutal choice for a daily driven car through rush hour - this should have no issues running 250+ TQ

Yellow PERFORMANCE PRESSURE PLATES
pressure_plate_yellow01.jpg
Click to expand...

ok, well first off, I've had some horrible luck with organic disks (the first one posted), they were bottom dollar though, but I do know they will smell like vienna sausages burning when you let the clutch out to softly, and I had THREE of them completely disintegrated. one of them, enough of it stayed that you could see where the holes the rivets go through had ovaled.

secondly, that second disk doesn't look like a carbon disk, it looks like a copper/cermet disk, which is the same material used in "puck" type race disks. this will hold up fine, and have plenty of grip, but engagement is a bit brutal. fine with an ATB, but not so much on a stock diff.

thirdly, that yello PP is a clutch net? thats definately NOT a reworked SVT PP...

any one have any experience with them?
 
KAOS_3.0 said:
secondly, that second disk doesn't look like a carbon disk, it looks like a copper/cermet disk, which is the same material used in "puck" type race disks. this will hold up fine, and have plenty of grip, but engagement is a bit brutal. fine with an ATB, but not so much on a stock diff.

thirdly, that yello PP is a clutch net? thats definately NOT a reworked SVT PP...

any one have any experience with them?
Click to expand...

the discription right on the web site says fiber carbon for the second one .... how do you know the engagement is brutal?

and what the ???? does the diff have to do with the ????ing clutch engagement? seeing as the stock diff will blow with a ????ing stock clutch the type of ????ing clutch makes no ????ing difference when it comes to the diff. shock loading of the driveterrain is shock loading no matter how you cut it. drive like a ????ing moron and your going to break ????.

also the pp photo has to be a stock photo. as with spec, clutchnet uses oem supplier stampings for the pp and makes their own springs. clutchnet already told me that they use german stamping which would include sach and luk who are OEM suppliers for our stock clutches. the pp should be fine. And I already posted this information.

Now I resepctfully ask you to leave my thread.
 
KyleQ said:
Yellow "SMOOTH LOCK" MARCEL SPRUNG HUB CLUTCH DISC

Liking this as it is full faced and I drive through rush hour ever day - wonder if it will hold up to a turbo setup pushing 250+ TQ?
Click to expand...

well that is very similar looking to the stock disk which of course is also organic. Can it hold the power, possibly, but it will not have the bite and grip that a mettalic clutch would have. I have verified this driving my SVT back to back with my contour.

The marcel spring hub would help make clutch engagment easier or "softer", I forget which. my father like that when he looked at the clutchnet website. I believe it make it more forgiving to drive.

now bagged told me he was running a stock SVT clutch with his turbo SVT and he drove it like he stole it. So there is a chance it will hold up to the power. but it might not take extended track time.


KyleQ said:
Yellow SPORT, "FIBER-CARBON" SPRUNG HUB CLUTCH DISC

This looks like it will be more of a brutal choice for a daily driven car through rush hour - this should have no issues running 250+ TQ
Click to expand...

yeah I can see this being alittle more dificult to drive since it has what appear to be pucks. I was thinking because its on a full face disk otherwise that engagement would be good. I am thinking that it could take the power and grip well. It might be my choice.


KyleQ said:
Yellow PERFORMANCE PRESSURE PLATES

Wondering if I should get another PP or run the SPEC 3+ PP depending on it's condition. No interest in running the Red 2XRace death PP
Click to expand...


like I mentioned the stamping for the housing will be a german unit. clutchnet said they use sach and luk so that part shouldn't be an issue. I was told to use the yellow pp.

from what triker said you can use the spec pressure plate if its in good shape. however the spec disk is thicker then stock. this means the geometery in the pp is different then stock. clutch net says their clutches and pp are interchangable with stock. so if you want to use the spec pp then you need to order a thicker disk. now I was also told that the reworked pp would have a heavier pedal feel. my spec was lighter then stock and I was told by clutchnet this is wrong. but I can't see even the red plate being that bad with a hydraulic clutch. its not going to be much more dificult to use the clutch like an old mechanical clutch would be because of the advantage of the hydraulics. I would say yellow or red would be a ok choice.
 
Yuck - my car will probably look like that.

Ok - It has to be the clutch in my car. At a stop, fire it up, no vibration - let out the clutch in N and the vibration starts....
 
BrApple said:
the discription right on the web site says fiber carbon for the second one .... how do you know the engagement is brutal?
Click to expand...

sorry man, I was just going off the pictures. this here is carbon clutch material:

IMG_5522.jpg



and this is a ceramic/copper clutch button:
China_clutch_button20087211730278.jpg



and what the ???? does the diff have to do with the ????ing clutch engagement? seeing as the stock diff will blow with a ????ing stock clutch the type of ????ing clutch makes no ????ing difference when it comes to the diff. shock loading of the driveterrain is shock loading no matter how you cut it. drive like a ????ing moron and your going to break ????.
Click to expand...

nothing besides that a clutch that engages abruptly is going to be more likely to introduce the diff to shock loads. a softer clutch isn't going to be as hard to let out without a shock to the drivetrain. ceramic "puck" type clutches are known for their abrupt engagement.

also the pp photo has to be a stock photo. as with spec, clutchnet uses oem supplier stampings for the pp and makes their own springs. clutchnet already told me that they use german stamping which would include sach and luk who are OEM suppliers for our stock clutches. the pp should be fine. And I already posted this information.
Click to expand...

sorry, I didn't take that into account, like I said, I was just commenting on the pictures. no need to get upset dude. maybe the picture for the carbon disk is wrong too, who knows.

Now I resepctfully ask you to leave my thread.
Click to expand...

wow, ok man, didn't even know you had a problem with me. I've just been in here waiting to see if anything interesting turns up since a new clutch is on the top of my needs list for the car right now.

but if you want me not to read your musings on clutches, thats ok I guess.

BTW, resepctfully made me think of "Alli G: in da house" :laugh:
 
pull the dust boot and take a look and see what you can see. its not going to be much but maybe something will be noticable.
 
Maverickflyer said:
So what is Spec saying about all this? It's not their fault, they take no responsibility for it?
Click to expand...


pretty much.

they said that it was most likely play in the input shaft on my mtx that caused undue movement in the clutch causing the springs to eat into the spring cage. all based on the photos I posted. everyone else that saw the photos said material or design issue.

I have hardness test results that show the spring cage on my clutch is softer then the stock SE clutch by Sachs that came out of my car.

I emailed this info the other night but Spec is closed for the week.
 
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