F1 Stage 2 Pics

[elraido]

I'm fairly sure what caused the spec failures was that the steel they used for the disk hub was weaker than even the stock stuff, that or people expected to be able to treat a stage 3 clutch like it was a stage 3 clutch.

From what I have seen, the clutches seemed to fail after an extended highway drive. They aren't abusing them and then they explode. I drive like a grandpa 98% of the time. The clutch in the car had, IIRC around 2-3K miles when I got it. 600 of that was break in. I am sure Pud put some abuse on it after that, but I know I didn't. I got the car in late September and by Nov we had snow. Clutch went out in April/May after being used about 7K miles total. Rivits holding it together popped out, springs blew out, metal tabs holding the springs in ripped apart.

 

[TRicker]

looks like it will last about 5 minutes, no offense. there isnt enough material on the hub connecting the friction material to the center. look at the openings.... scary.

i'm waiting for my clutchnet solid hub disc to show up, then i'll show you what a clutch should look like

 

[KAOS_3.0]

are you talking about the marcel spring? there's not much to the stock SVT one there either and the material on the SVT one is thinner. I think folks aren't getting the point. everybody is comparing this clutch to $350+ stage 3 parts when it's a $275 stage 2, only 50 bucks more than the stock clutch. none of the windows are closed on the stock clutch, there's a thin marcel spring on the stock clutch, there's less rivets in the stock clutch, and I'm waiting to find out if the stock clutch has a lower clamp load. the question here isn't if this clutch is stronger than a stage 3+ from a high end company, the question is if it's stronger than the stock clutch, and from the pictures Id say it still is.

and if you really want a clutch with no marcel spring, the SE stock disk doesnt have one, just one big plate of steel with the organic material on it and a sprung hub...

 

[BrApple]

no, look at this clutch. its cobled together design doesn't even look as good as stock to me.


also what are you talking about with the SE clutch? it joins to the center section much like the SVT clutch. just alittle different to look at ....

SE Clutch

SVT Clutch

also total thickness of the friction material doesn't matter per say. what matters is the depth to the rivet, that will determine its life. note that the clutchnet disk as a very shollow depth from the friction surface to the rivet.


also where are you talking about less rivets? each point where the friction material is conencted to the hub has two rivets. now yes it has two more rivets holding the cage area together.

yes the stock clutches don't have the springs caged but they also don't have the springs liberate either unless they have broken.

 

[elraido]

are you talking about the marcel spring? there's not much to the stock SVT one there either and the material on the SVT one is thinner. I think folks aren't getting the point. everybody is comparing this clutch to $350+ stage 3 parts when it's a $275 stage 2, only 50 bucks more than the stock clutch. none of the windows are closed on the stock clutch, there's a thin marcel spring on the stock clutch, there's less rivets in the stock clutch, and I'm waiting to find out if the stock clutch has a lower clamp load. the question here isn't if this clutch is stronger than a stage 3+ from a high end company, the question is if it's stronger than the stock clutch, and from the pictures Id say it still is.

and if you really want a clutch with no marcel spring, the SE stock disk doesnt have one, just one big plate of steel with the organic material on it and a sprung hub...

And my question to you is, why do you care about how much stonger this clutch might be vs a stock one? Remember when I said, Blackcoog could use a stock svt clutch with his supercharger putting out 300 whp and that is when it would start to slip? You NEED to go FI before you need to worry about going past a stock clutch. I basically had the same set up as TRicker and he is pushing around 250 hp at the crank....I never even had the slightest hint of slipping. So explain to me why you need a "stronger" clutch?

 

[KAOS_3.0]

no, look at this clutch. its cobled together design doesn't even look as good as stock to me.


also what are you talking about with the SE clutch? it joins to the center section much like the SVT clutch. just alittle different to look at ....


also total thickness of the friction material doesn't matter per say. what matters is the depth to the rivet, that will determine its life. note that the clutchnet disk as a very shollow depth from the friction surface to the rivet.


also where are you talking about less rivets? each point where the friction material is conencted to the hub has two rivets. now yes it has two more rivets holding the cage area together.

yes the stock clutches don't have the springs caged but they also don't have the springs liberate either unless they have broken.

Ah, you right about the SE clutch, the hub plate is so big around I didnt remember seeing any marcel spring there. I also agree with you about depth to the rivet, but a more durable friction material will also not wear down as fast.

Your still not getting my point though. check the prices for a clutch net clutch: http://www.clutchnet.com/search.php?mode=search

195 for carbon or kevlar sprung hub, plus 295 for a yellow pressure plate, thats $490 for a clutch that didn't come with a TOB ($100 on e-bay), and you still see reviews like this: http://www.sr20-forum.com/product-reviews/14457-clutchnet-clutches-thumbs-way-down.html

for almost $600 you could buy a Centerforce dual friction...

And my question to you is, why do you care about how much stonger this clutch might be vs a stock one? Remember when I said, Blackcoog could use a stock svt clutch with his supercharger putting out 300 whp and that is when it would start to slip? You NEED to go FI before you need to worry about going past a stock clutch. So explain to me why you need a "stronger" clutch?

I hear you, but I've never had luck with organic clutch disks. apparently I'm highly abusive on clutches. I literally had an organic disk disintegrate in my ranger, holes in the friction material ovaled, then it cracked and came loose from the disk. I had oreo crumbs in my bell housing. and that was with the stock engine that the clutch was designed for.

I basically had the same set up as TRicker and he is pushing around 250 hp at the crank....I never even had the slightest hint of slipping.

bench racing anyone?

if I had the money to waste and I didnt have to worry about destroying my trans, I'm sure I could show you a failed SVT disk....

 

[RFcsvt]

The pp is for sure LUK. They claim it to be induction hardened. I would assume this may stiffen it up some, but as far as how it looks, it is a painted LUK PP

The disk feels really solid compared to the svt disk. I was somewhat concerned while reading the opinions on this thread, but after holding them both and doing a side by side I'm pretty confident it will be an ok disk. The marcel spring is for sure more solid than the svt disk. I guess I'll have more info once it is installed. I'll for sure do a review once it is broken in, but that will be about a month away I'm sure.

 

[BrApple]

Your still not getting my point though. check the prices for a clutch net clutch: http://www.clutchnet.com/search.php?mode=search

195 for carbon or kevlar sprung hub, plus 295 for a yellow pressure plate, thats $490 for a clutch that didn't come with a TOB ($100 on e-bay), and you still see reviews like this: http://www.sr20-forum.com/product-reviews/14457-clutchnet-clutches-thumbs-way-down.html

so what are you trying to argue again? if you need a performance clutch then you are going to have to pay for it. if you want something to equal stock then get a stock clutch. this F1 clutch you are raving about is suppose to be better then stock. but you have been trying to compare it to stock ... most have compared it to everything.

it sounds like the cobbled together cluster •••• of a design is ok since its only a stage 2 clutch.

also that post on the sr20 forum is a ••••ing moron. I don't believe he realized how much the ceramic cuts into the pressure plate and flywheel. thats the nature of the friction material. also having a un-sprung disk i bet he beat the living •••• out of it. the friction material is worn to the rivets, so of course that is going to rip things up. the guy must have done something wrong, as he wore the clutch out and is trying to blaim the manufacture ... really? come on ....

 

[CSVT#49]

this F1 clutch looks like a cobbled together peice of ••••. i do believe CSVT#49 said in his group buy thread when picking between F1 and Clutchnet that F1 was an off shoot, a former employee of clutchnet. Its clean they just picked some parts of designs of other clutches and threw it together ....

When I called F1 and talked with a rep he basically told me that F1 clutches are re-branded Competition Clutches. F1 clutches used to buy their clutches from ClutchNet, but supposedly he claimed ClutchNet couldn't keep up with their demand and that is when they switch suppliers to Competition Clutch. Truth is both ClutchNet and Competition Clutch use LuK pressure plates. They may have some 'special' tweaks that they have done with them, but in the end they are just repainted LuK PP's. The only thing that ClutchNet and Competition Clutch are manufacturing are the clutch discs. ClutchNet manufactures their disc's in-house at their US facility. Competition Clutch has the vast majority of their clutch discs manufactured in China or Taiwan (I forgot which one), but for high volume clutch discs they do use a shop up the street from their facility.

I chose ClutchNet clutches for the GB because the guy knew exactly what he was talking about, and held patents on the design. I read up on the patents and was impressed with their design as well.

Bottom-line... the F1 clutch shown in this thread is manufactured by a well know company and will probably work just fine.

 

[RFcsvt]

When I called F1 and talked with a rep he basically told me that F1 clutches are re-branded Competition Clutches. F1 clutches used to buy their clutches from ClutchNet, but supposedly he claimed ClutchNet couldn't keep up with their demand and that is when they switch suppliers to Competition Clutch. Truth is both ClutchNet and Competition Clutch use LuK pressure plates. They may have some 'special' tweaks that they have done with them, but in the end they are just repainted LuK PP's. The only thing that ClutchNet and Competition Clutch are manufacturing are the clutch discs. ClutchNet manufactures their disc's in-house at their US facility. Competition Clutch has the vast majority of their clutch discs manufactured in China or Taiwan (I forgot which one), but for high volume clutch discs they do use a shop up the street from their facility.

I chose ClutchNet clutches for the GB because the guy knew exactly what he was talking about, and held patents on the design. I read up on the patents and was impressed with their design as well.

Bottom-line... the F1 clutch shown in this thread is manufactured by a well know company and will probably work just fine.

Yesterday after I posted the pics I found your thread abouth the Clutchnet/F1 group buy. You did a ton of research and that thread definitely helped put my mind at ease. The build quality of the disk seems solid, but having the info on the manufacturer is definitely nice.

So now it's time for the road test! I'm pretty anxious to get my car back together, so hopefully I'll have it ready in under a month.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

wow, I'd actually forgotten about that thread...

at any rate, I decided to highlight the areas in the F1 disk that I think make it worth the extra 50 bucks over stock:

[edit]

but if you could just do me one more favor before you put it in, shove a ruler or something down the spline hole of each one to a flat surface behind the disk so we can get a measurement of how much further out the spline hub protrudes from the disk. I'm pretty curious...

 

[TRicker]

]






bench racing anyone?

no bench racing necessary. i can show you a failed svt disc, 6 puck spec, 6 puck clutchnet, F1 stage2, whatever you want. you just send it my way and i'll take it apart using only my car and left foot.

 

[elraido]

]






bench racing anyone?

no bench racing necessary. i can show you a failed svt disc, 6 puck spec, 6 puck clutchnet, F1 stage2, whatever you want. you just send it my way and i'll take it apart using only my car and left foot.

No one is doubting that at all! I want in on the ride when that happens!

 

[BrApple]

Bottom-line... the F1 clutch shown in this thread is manufactured by a well know company and will probably work just fine.

this is good information to know. however for being an uprated/upgraded part I don't like/don't think the design is good at all. still looks like a mash up of a number of designs.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

it's an upgrade from stock, even if it wasnt the best thought out design. honestly, all of the performance clutches available to us, with the exception of maybe the centerforce dual friction, are cobbled together mash ups with stock LUK cover stampings and mostly the same disk design...

when Exedy makes us a RCC/steel multi-disk clutch with a machined billet aluminum cover and pull type diaphragm/TOB let me know....

 

[RFcsvt]

I still need to measure the splined center of the disk. I'll do that, I didn't forget, just been busy.

 

[BrApple]

it's an upgrade from stock, even if it wasnt the best thought out design. honestly, all of the performance clutches available to us, with the exception of maybe the centerforce dual friction, are cobbled together mash ups with stock LUK cover stampings and mostly the same disk design...

when Exedy makes us a RCC/steel multi-disk clutch with a machined billet aluminum cover and pull type diaphragm/TOB let me know....

from what I found out all aftermarket clutch companies use OEM pressure plates .... why are you bringing up the pressure plate what we are talking about the clutch disk??

 

[alwayssideways]

i just got back from a long road trip , cruise, and dyno day with my f1 racing clutch. I have to say that im not impressed. It was cheap and it held me over for a few weeks. But when I get a chance I am swapping it out for a ACT. Mind you that this is on my zx2. The clutch holds pretty well , but there is no engagement area. It either slips or grabs. Its hard to get the car moving. I also dont like the light pedal. The clutch is hard to judge. Not to mention it started to slip under higher rpms. I know this is a different platform and might react different. I hope you have better luck with it than I did. Ill try and take some pics when I pull it. Im just tired of over reving the car because the clutch wont engage

 

[KAOS_3.0]

I still need to measure the splined center of the disk. I'll do that, I didn't forget, just been busy.

awesome, theres a reason I want to know, but I'm not telling till I do the math...

from what I found out all aftermarket clutch companies use OEM pressure plates .... why are you bringing up the pressure plate what we are talking about the clutch disk??

not OEM pressure plates, OEM clutch cover stampings. they're supposed to upgrade the diaphragm spring, and if they dont, I can see kevlar sucking at life as a friction material...

i just got back from a long road trip , cruise, and dyno day with my f1 racing clutch. I have to say that im not impressed. It was cheap and it held me over for a few weeks. But when I get a chance I am swapping it out for a ACT. Mind you that this is on my zx2. The clutch holds pretty well , but there is no engagement area. It either slips or grabs. Its hard to get the car moving. I also dont like the light pedal. The clutch is hard to judge. Not to mention it started to slip under higher rpms. I know this is a different platform and might react different. I hope you have better luck with it than I did. Ill try and take some pics when I pull it. Im just tired of over reving the car because the clutch wont engage

wow, that sucks dude. I hope your issues with it turn out to be isolated to just you. I guess we'll find out shortly...

 

[alwayssideways]

Yeah. I just have to find time to drop the trans and swap in my ACT. Just with the pending weddings, and other things coming up finding the 6 hours to do this is going to be rough