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First off... the SVT p/s cooler only has fins on the top tubes, not the bottom... so air running across the fin-less tube (in the way they're mounting it) *shouldn't* have the much of an effect. The finned SVT p/s cooler should be more than what most people here need anyways. It was fine for me even with autocrossing, except for the middle of summer. During that time, I would overheat my p/s pump... so I got a much larger cooler, which was cheaper that the OEM cooler.

So... I agree with Tom/Joey that most people will be fine with how it's mounted, unless they do autocrossing/HPDE... in which they should get a real p/s cooler anyways. An Earls 2"x2"x8" cooler (20706ERL) is at least 3-4x more efficient than the SVT p/s cooler and is only about $50 (SVT cooler is about $90).
 
Now I didn't mention it was going to see less air but I did mention the FMIC will see more air than the PS because it needs too. The older cars in the day never had them and the reason they didn't is because you as an owner should change the oil in the PS since the oil breaks down from heat and the lubricating properties are not there like they should be.

Now I like a show of hands who here has change there oil every year like it should be not any unless you are autocrosser. I ran with my power steering fluid in my truck for 10 years it doesn't have an cooler like ours and 6years in my SVT . The reason most people see increased heat is because people who are in traffic alot or autocross don't reach speed faster enough to generate enough ait movement to dispate the heat off the fins.

I am glad we are having this subject talked about because I think some people have had concerns because they burned up there PS pump or heard there pump airating(only way to know if it is hot obviousily) but did anyone of these guys change there oil annually or put sythetic oil for high performance purposes.

The reason I didn't place the cooler between the fmic and condensor like Tom said is that I had three Condensor wear holes not including his teo he had that ADC did not pay for that cost me $100.00 a pop (provifing I did all my own labor). I finally was able to place a rubber cushion between the two peices to avoid this. The FMIC only has an inch to spare on the stage 1 kit if you want to try but guees what I am not going to unless I can place a rubber barrier.Because a FMIC costing nearily $200 and a condensor close to that plus freon and labor. I will stick what I will know won't affect the car performance or condition.

You can buy PS pump all day for $35 used and I never have had one go down yet not even the cars I have
without coolers.

They way it came off is that we were hiding somthing or just patching up the kit to make it work. And forgive me for taking it this way but believe me this was already discussed and the level of concern was not there since it will see air flow since the the three components in the car FMIC,condensor and radiator or all huge resistance so the increase air pressure in the front cap will migrate quickily around the sides of the fmic to low pressure under the hood.

Remember I live where it is 100 degree all summer long and even 110 during august. If there was anyone who had an isssue it would be me surely since I autocross year round too.

My opinion would be to put an oil cooler on your car bigger than stock don't learn from me I killed my 5k motor due to oil temps and thin oil less than 8 k whic cost me 1K to fix. If i had a choice I would swap the PS over to cool tubes then mount me a nice big fanned oil cooler in the fender.

But until someone shows me they have changed their oil annually and used a name brand oil and proved to me that the temps were greater than it should I will keep the price where it is and not add a aftermarket cooler.

But better than that I will offer a upgrade once I can get around to it since my stage 3 will have both a oil cooler and PS cooler mounted in the fender. I will offer the setup on my site for those who feel they need it. Or I will help you fit one there as a techincal support guy:)

Once again I like these indepth debates it just educates the site and CEG's we have here.

later guys
 
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warmonger I was talking to you guys who made it just like every question that is posted on here is. And what im trying to say is that yall said the tune for the 2.5 should work almost spot on for the 3L, when it wont. That what im trying to say. Yeah if you have a older 3L 96-99 yeah I guess it would probably be the same since it does have secondaries like joey said. But mines a straight 01 3L no 2nd and the tune would be dif. I wasnt trying to be a ******* I was just say it would be dif and I guess yall might have said it wouldn't be dif being uner the assumption that everyone has, or almost everyone, a older 3L.
 
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Contour2gq Tom did not read up far enough to see what discussions was taking place. He has been taking huge test for the military and I have been holding down the fort till he finished his miltary duties. I will let him discuss the different variations on the tune since he does the tuning side at this point. If you have any misunderstandings or PM us or just call tom number directily he will gladly give you answers on the phone.

If anyone here needs to talk to us in person call our phones they are posted on our website for in depth question or concerns. We do answer the phone:)

Hope we can find all your answers.joey
 
CSVT#49 said:
Well Tom I know that you are decreasing the area of the cooler that will see cool ambient flow. So logically it wont cool AS well ......
However yes as you say we the end user can decide how we wish to mount the kit when we get it. If I see a need to mount the PS cooler differently I will do so. No hard feelings. I like what you guys have done here.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from. However the problem is much more complicated than these couple of posts describe. Also, we aren't talking about just your level of understanding here. We have a range of experience from noob to veteran in this thread and some may see anything negative as more of an issue.

Let me just throw out a few points that might cause you to at least agree that this may be the best position for the stock cooler to cool as well as stock assuming you make sure your ducting isn't blocking it.

1. The intercooler core has far greater resistance to airflow going through it than the PS cooler. Air will have a tendency to blow through until the pressure raises then it will blow around the IC if you the buyer duct the IC well and leave the bottom open then the PS cooler well actually receive faster flowing airflow along the bottom as long as the air can escape. In effect the whole system will be one giant duct and where a good portion of air from the car driving will go through that PS cooler.

2. Look at all the ford cars made and ask yourself which ones have BOTH a separate PS cooler AND an external fluid reservoir? This is one of the few. Most of the cars use a combination Resevoir/pump right next to the engine

3. Just the very fact that there is a PS cooler inline will sink heat and also radiate heat to the surroundings and still making it significantly cooler than another type of PS system.

4. Cooling the fluid a bit more is only there to preserve the PS oil from breaking down. i.e. it allows the oil to last the life of the car. HOW MANY people actually have flushed and changed their PS system oil at all? How many of those who did ONLY did a partial because they lost fluid when they opened it up to swap a 3L or whatnot? Most of them I"m sure.

5. If you drain and flush your PS oil once per year or even once per two-years then it would be more effective than even having the Oil cooler in the first place.

6. There is only ONE set of fins on the PS core that is basically U-shaped. You can't tell me that 1" of distance going across the first tube is going to significantly heat the air up as it's crossing the second tube so that it won't also cool that one. NOW if there was no airflow through it then yes you would be correct in your assumptions.

So here is our logic when designing this kit:
We thought this out. When we were trying to position this PS cooler. WE felt that it would be better for the PS cooler NOT to be in front of the IC so that the IC had the coolest possible air to help protect the engine from high intake temps....better to protect the engine from detonation first before anything else right?
Then we thought about behind the IC but when the car is under boost the Temps hit about 190*F at only 8-9psi. How well will that PS cooler cool the oil in air temps near 180-200*F? Not as well as it would if it just had a smaller slice of fresh air that Oh By the Way is also forced in under a bit more pressure than it would through the intercooler.

As far as why we both posted.... your statement was said in such a way like it was some gigantic surprise like a detective had to be around to find out about it and it sounded Very Negative to me. And on top of that you didn't just ask us what our reasoning was before you said "It Won't Cool Very Well."
So of course no hard feelings. :cool: I just hope that next time there is an issue you give us a chance to explain our reasoning by asking us before passing judgment.
 
contour2gq said:
warmonger I was talking to you guys who made it just like every question that is posted on here is. And what im trying to say is that yall said the tune for the 2.5 should work almost spot on for the 3L, when it wont. That what im trying to say. Yeah if you have a older 3L 96-99 yeah I guess it would probably be the same since it does have secondaries like joey said. But mines a straight 01 3L no 2nd and the tune would be dif. I wasnt trying to be a ******* I was just say it would be dif and I guess yall might have said it wouldn't be dif being uner the assumption that everyone has, or almost everyone, a older 3L.
Click to expand...

Well I guess this is just communication issue. It WILL be the same tune as far as boosting goes but I DID say it would be tailored to each PCM code and engine setup. All that means is the variations between engines with and without secondaries, with and without EGR, 3L/2.5L, etc. will all be set in the basic code.
Setting those parameters up I don't count as "Tuning". The TUNE portion will be in adjusting timing tables, maf, fuel tables, and factoring their dependency on engine load, temperature, rpm, etc. THAT my friend is why I mean it will be the same tune. Those tables I made are proven out and they work well for boosted engines.
That's all. So don't fear that you will be getting something generic, it will be tailored to your setup.
 
warmonger said:
I understand where you are coming from. However the problem is much more complicated than these couple of posts describe. Also, we aren't talking about just your level of understanding here. We have a range of experience from noob to veteran in this thread and some may see anything negative as more of an issue.

As far as why we both posted.... your statement was said in such a way like it was some gigantic surprise like a detective had to be around to find out about it and it sounded Very Negative to me. And on top of that you didn't just ask us what our reasoning was before you said "It Won't Cool Very Well."
So of course no hard feelings. :cool: I just hope that next time there is an issue you give us a chance to explain our reasoning by asking us before passing judgment.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree with you. I have a habit of just stating something bluntly rather then posing a question along with a statement. For that I apoligize. I was just concerned that there might have been a chance to have over looked something like this so I brought up the topic. You seemed to have considered your options and made a thought out decision. Out of the posts here I have seen some things brought up that I did not consider I was also assuming that the cooler was very similar to my SHO's cooler, which I have discovered it is not.

My only question remaining is, is there a gap between the PS cooler and the FMIC on the bottom? It appears that it is butted up against it in the pics. To optimize the location for what it is, it would be benefical to have a decent gap there if possible assuming you have the clearance for it.
 
beyondloadedSE Well I know it would be the same for the 96-99 3L cause it has a split port intake like the 2.5 but the 2000 to curent have a oval port and does not have a IMRC so for it to run right and to run its best it will have to have a dif tune than the 2.5. I mean im sure they new that I was just saying cause some people may have been confused and thought it will work the same for ALL 3L
But anyway yes I want to see the final DYNO results!!
 
I don't have the final dyno report and this is why.

I went there not ever turning the boost over 7 psi on the street. I was going to get a good pull on the dyno to see what numbers I was gettting but at 7 psi I was getting wastegate leak due to the 3 psi spring. So the dyno was only 249whp 230wtq since the boost started leaking down @ 5500 rpms so I was never able to make good torque or power since we were stuck at 6 psi after 5k.
We netted 10whp more this dyno with better tuning but the timing was safer too @ 6 psi. I decided to try to get it to 8 psi but it would hit 8 psi at 3500 rpms then the wastegate opens then instead of the wastegate closing some to keep 8 psi it stuck open and allowed the boost to fall to 6 psi. So I have to change the spring to the 8 psi spring tomorrow and hit the dyno one more time.

I will post the dyno chart monday since he closed tonite we had 28 cars dyno and I was last so he said he would email me monday to remind him.

So anyone who want to stay 6 psi less can order the 3.5 psi spring but you will be limited due to the exhaust pressures to go higher. But you guys who want 270ish and up need to order the 7.25 spring which will be perffect.

So sorry but that just the name of the game you try diiferent things just like we pushed factory injectors to 238whp. We are trying to do all the testing for you guys so you have a better idea of what settings you want.

I will put in the spring tomorrow and get some videos of the car. Does that sound like a deal.
 
Not to sound like im knocking the kit but 238 on turbo? Dom over on FCO made like 213 at the wheels on just a straight 3L tuned.....I know you was only running factory 19# and 5psi but damn it is turbo.... and only 25 more hp?
 
contour2gq said:
Not to sound like im knocking the kit but 238 on turbo? Dom over on FCO made like 213 at the wheels on just a straight 3L tuned.....I know you was only running factory 19# and 5psi but damn it is turbo.... and only 25 more hp?
Click to expand...

lmao...:help: :nonono:
 
contour2gq said:
Not to sound like im knocking the kit but 238 on turbo? Dom over on FCO made like 213 at the wheels on just a straight 3L tuned.....I know you was only running factory 19# and 5psi but damn it is turbo.... and only 25 more hp?
Click to expand...

Heheh. No problem. That was only the first shot at tuning which we have improved. Don't forget that you are comparing a 3L with a 2.5L also. That 3L starts with 20% more displacement. On the other hand, that 3L probably never produced more than 190 wTQ, whereas just 4-5psi on this 2.5L is producing 230-240 wTQ.

Bottom line: A 2.5L stock with no pulling of the engine, no modifications, and a kit you can install that costs around the same price as the average NICE 3L install produces 40/50 more wHP and TQ.
And looks cooler.
And can trap 100mph in the 1/4 mile on street tires and if you can launch probably hit 14s flat.

Almost no 3Ls can do that...and definitely not so easily with so little work and so little money spent.
:cool:
 
The kit will do 10 psi if you want I never said I was maxing out the kit. All I said was we have a dyno of 6 psi making 250whp that is close to 300 hp at the crank with just 6 psi. I was not able to run more boost because the wastegates opens up prematurely due to the light spring. I will be swapping out the spring today to the 8 psi spring so now if you want me to push 10 psi to show you it will you must remember I only been on the dyno twice the first time was 3.5 psi 210 whp with stock injectors then 5 psi making 238whp stock injectors 250 wtq.

The sat I went to a dyno meet and ran 6 psi and made 250whp so now if I can get a 7 psi 8 psi and even a 9 psi run then I will have the numbers regardless.

We all know here who are verterans that if you put 8-10 psi in a svt stock motor it will do 275-300whp all day if fine tuned. The ring lands become a issue at close to 300whp on the pre99 if you have a 2000 I would feel better to reach 10 psi.

The car with 8-10 psi will be a 13 sec car at about 104mph I know because I had the sama setup four years ago with stock motor.

You have use basic fundementals here 8 psi-10 psi is ###cfms regardless if you put it in with a Supercharger or turbo. the turbo will be more effecient and net you more power than the SC because it ran off of the motor discharge plus the TQ is 35% higher too.

The turbo we have on there now is larger enough to puish my 3 liter to 400whp 410 wtq so the limitations are in the FMIC which has never rose over 104 F at any part of the day and the pressure drop is low so far.

I will turn the boost up today and video some runs then I want you to dig up some old dynos with a stock svt and look at what you might expect it to do on dyno. Trust me I wish I owned a dyno I would have already had you higher boost levels but I have to pay 100.00 a pop to make a run just to repeat what we already know the motor will do at a set psi. Thanks joey
 
after waking up some I realized maybe I worded the post last night unclear. I remember some people saying they were only going to run with 5 psi because they wantedit that way.

First off I am a type of guy who will tell you everything as it goes. Maybe I should stand back and just wait till we get the next dyno @8 psi and higher so I can not worry people. But I as a follower of this project would love to know step by step process since I would be very interested in the kit too.

To sum up last night I stated that you cannot run the 3.5 spring higher than 6 psi ****unless you have a electronic boost controller**** unlike mine which is manual at this time. At no extra charge you tell me you want the run more boost then 6 psi I will supply you with a 7.25 psi spring then you can go to 10 psi if you like with no issues on boost dropping off due to the wastegate opening by itself.

trust me 2-3 psi on this 2.5 liter motor will net me more than 25whp which will be we projected it to hit plus or minus 5whp.

So if 320 hp which is 120 hp more than stock is not enough power for you guys then the swap a 3 liter then put the stage 2 and get 375hp over stock numbers.

I will sit back and wait till I get back to the dyno hopefully monday if not it will be later since my days off expire monday night.
 
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