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New dyno for non-intercooled kit

B

BurritaSVT

Veteran CEG'er
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Messages
756
Location
houma, LA 70360
First off we needed to get some info on a new setup we will be offering so we used a turbo we sell with the intercooled kit more designed for 10 psi due to it trim sizes and testes it to see what numbers poeple can get with the worst possible setup.

If someone only had $2100 to spend and later on wanted to get the intercooled kit for extra price to get the 275whp to 300whp on there stock motors or 3.0 they could buy this setup and still dominate any NA application for the best bang for the buck. We all know that the 3 liters are putting low 200whp's with good tunes and all the bolts ons which add up quick too. So we dynoed my stock 2.5 liter motor with a ineffecient turbo for this boost level but we will offer a super 60 for those who want more power at low boost for the same price.
The first run we did was a intercooled run set at 5psi to get a baseline but to much suprise the intercooler hurt the performance due to the large vloume it needed to compress at low boost. also timing was pulled back too

The second run we pulled the intercooler off and piped it straight into the TB and we put down better numbers which shows that to big does not always mean more power. Was also done at 5 psi not touching the boost controller to get accurate measurements. The timing was the same to retarded to the same as run one

the third run was done at 3.5 psi with done with no intercooler and was full stock timing not adjustments except MAF function. So a 2.5 liter blown with 3.5 psi will put down more power than most 3 liters even modified too.

the fourth run was done with 5 psi with full timing where you will notice the torque jumoed up 30ft/lbs more and did a good solid 220 with a oversized turbo which is what we wanted to do to get the worst numbers possible to keep people from being upset in the future.

The intake temps were 103 degrees with the intercooler and without the intercooler it was 150 degrees at 3.5 psi and stayyed the same at 5 psi that was reassuring since I think a person can push 6 psi if he had the proper gauges to do so.

The kit will be a huge stepping stone for the stock 2.5 liter motors to get there engine in the 260hp range with 240 tq on some high mileage motors like mine. Joey

I was a hot day too and it was humid since it rained while I was on the dyno too.
nonintercooledpicsdyno.jpg
 
Funny timing... I've been meaning to email you about this setup. So does this kit come with all the same stuff as your original "stage1" kit, but without the intercooler and it's piping (but with the turbo -> t/b pipe)? How much for the upgrade to your standard i/c kit, after purchasing this one?
 
hmm, makes you think ... I was thinking at first to just run something like 3.5 psi on the stock motor and injectors, etc. Then later on step it up to the 10 psi or so.

so same question, how much to add the intercooler later on?
 
BrApple said:
hmm, makes you think ... I was thinking at first to just run something like 3.5 psi on the stock motor and injectors, etc. Then later on step it up to the 10 psi or so.

so same question, how much to add the intercooler later on?
Click to expand...

well the injectors are not included but you can source your own if you like since they are some used on the internet or buy a set from us for $219 shipped since the 19# will support 230whp on return style only and the 17# will do 210whp return style too not guaranteeing it but a AF will be a good investment if you plan on going above what we ran.

The IC setup $600 which comes with the FMIC, painted pipes, silicone hoses, and clamps.
Joey
 
BurritaSVT said:
well the injectors are not included but you can source your own if you like since they are some used on the internet or buy a set from us for $219 shipped since the 19# will support 230whp on return style only and the 17# will do 210whp return style too not guaranteeing it but a AF will be a good investment if you plan on going above what we ran.

The IC setup $600 which comes with the FMIC, painted pipes, silicone hoses, and clamps.
Joey
Click to expand...


well I have 19# injectors already and a LC-1 to install.

so when you bump up to 10 psi with the intercooler you are going to need injectors also ...those included or will that be extra to get the injectors that come with the kit if you go all out to 10 psi up front? I'm guessing they will be extra

but bottom line it sounds like it would be better to not use the intercooler if we want to run low psi. would it be possible to spend alittle extra to get the current intercooled kit and all and also get the intercooler delete pipe so that one could start with low boost and then be able to install the intercooler to go to high boost?
 
hotdimmes said:
These runs are on a stock SVT motor correct?
Click to expand...

These runs are on a stock 2.5L svt motor with 110K+ miles on it. :cool:

Basically we have a plan to produce a non-intercooled kit at an affordable price. We want to offer it with a smaller turbo that yields faster spool than you see here and that is more efficient in the 4-6psi range than these big T3/4 turbos are.
The 57trim with only 3-4psi boost is very inefficient so you see high intake temps and moderate performance.
NOTICE that when increasing to 5psi we get a huge bump in torque because the turbo is beginning to get more efficient and the intake temps have not gone up even though it is compressed even more. In addition to that we have the stock timing curve taking full advantage of the additional airflow.
If you change to a more efficient turbo such as a T3 Super60, GT25,28 turbo and run between 4-6psi it will become even more efficient, probably see even lower intake temps and generate a smoother more powerful torque curve. Any of those turbos will make excellent power when an intercooler is added later and with a very balanced torque curve through the midrange. In effect, they will make the car an outstanding autocross/road course car, stoplight racer (oops), etc. Drag racing results will be not as good as a larger turbo that builds boost in later rpm.

Therefore you can start off a bit more affordably and with just a $150 intake temp gauge you can monitor your intake temps.
With the addition of a good water injection system and tuning you can run an non intercooled system up to 10psi like Anastazi did back in the day.
Then you can add the front mount system or build your own intercooling system.
We want to offer total flexibility but we hope you'll all come back to us later and buy additional parts or get tuning. :cool:
 
Can you guys update your site to include all these details? It currently only has the original "stage1" kit info... so it looks like you're missing this kit and the "stage2" kit.
 
260hp and 240tq, that's not at the wheels correct? And that is with no intercooler and the more efficient turbo at what psi?
 
BrApple said:
since it was on a dyno I would take those numbers as at the wheel ...
Click to expand...

I think the confusion is this:
buritta said:
The kit will be a huge stepping stone for the stock 2.5 liter motors to get there engine in the 260hp range with 240 tq on some high mileage motors like mine. Joey
Click to expand...

Does he mean that the kit in this thread will make 260hp, which seems more like bhp given the 208-219whp dyno plots in this thread, or does he mean it's a stepping stone to eventually get to 260whp with the addition of the intercooler and whatnot.
 
you know what I missed that point. good question. Wasn't there comment before about being slighly better then N/A 3L's?


ok, yeah I missed that point, the dyno plot says about 210 at the wheel so the 260/240 must be for the engine.
 
yeah I talked to them on the phone and they said it'd make more power than pretty much any n/a 3 liter while costing less and being much easier to install and upgrade further
 
BrApple said:
you know what I missed that point. good question. Wasn't there comment before about being slighly better then N/A 3L's?


ok, yeah I missed that point, the dyno plot says about 210 at the wheel so the 260/240 must be for the engine.
Click to expand...

You are getting a basic kit that can be expanded all the way up to 300+ wHP range with just bolts-ons and very little changes.

It means that by raising the boost you can be at the 260/240 range assuming you have something like intercooler or water injection to control heat.

The reality is that depending on the type of turbo you use you can expect 220+ wHP and 210-250 wTQ with just the non intercooled kit.
The turbo selected will play a HUGE roll in what initial power you will make without an intercooler and at low boost.
The turbo choice is driven by your present and future power goals.
 
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