In need of some 3L info

[95_Mystique]

As some have seen, i'm looking into a 2000 Contour SVT with a 3L hybrid. I dont know •••• about 2.5's or 3L's so i need as much info as possible!

First of all, yes i do know the difference between a 3l hybrid, 3l port matched, and a full 3L.

With a 3l hybrid, i hear they are more likely to have engine problems/engine failure. Is this true, even with the revised heads? Also, what kind of CR do they run? Average power numbers?

Now, if they are more prone to problems, how hard would it be to make it a port matched or even a full 3L? Does everything just bolt on and you're ready to go, or do you have to change parts of the harness? Are there any advantages of a 3L hybrid over any of the other 3Ls?​

 

[BrApple]

look up info on csvt1214's car. its a hybrid that has over 60k miles. if it was built right its going to be fine. I believe most hybrid build issues stem from people not prepping the block correctly.

well if you want to make it port matched you would need to port the heads. but ultimatly people do the porting as to not have to remove the heads. I say you are going to go to that trouble I would swap the heads and go full or ported 3L.

basically I wouldn't worry about it at all.

as for power numbers they are similar to the other 3L builds, better with a tune. The CR is higher then stock, but I am not sure how much.

 

[mmc757]

I really geeked out over dyno plots a while back...
After careful analysis, and lots of spreadsheet work, I came up with the following average numbers for common NA builds (based on 19 different cars with posted dyno plots and enough info provided to properly classify the build):
>04 cammed full - 203 Hp @ 5.6K, 204 Ft-lbs @ 4.5k
SVT cammed full - 211 Hp @ 5.9k, 200 Ft-lbs @ 4.9k
SVT cammed hybrid - 209 Hp @ 6.2k, 193 Ft-lbs @ 4.8k
SVT cammed ported - 203 Hp @ 6.4k, 195 Ft-lbs @ 4.5k
There wasnt enough data on other variations to compare.

The highest individual Hp in the group was 225 @ 6.5k on a hybrid (he was unique as the only one in the group with an ST200 UIM)
The highest individual Tq in the group was 220 @ 4.6k on an SVT cammed full

 

[bgrogan01]

Only problem I see with the numbers above is the location, type of dyno, and mods to each car. To get a true comparison you would need to do them all on the same day, have the same mods, and same dyno. Of course I understand this is just an estimate based off of what people have posted and to give 95 mystique and average numbe to compare each to.

 

[mmc757]

Only problem I see with the numbers above is the location, type of dyno, and mods to each car. To get a true comparison you would need to do them all on the same day, have the same mods, and same dyno. Of course I understand this is just an estimate based off of what people have posted and to give 95 mystique and average numbe to compare each to.

All true...also to show that all the various arrangements ended up within 8 Hp and 9 ft-lbs of eachother...so basically its in the quality of build, not so much the arrangement. (although the full's consistently outperform the ported's across the board)

 

[bgrogan01]

(although the full's consistently outperform the ported's across the board)

From what I have seen yes they do....which is why my next 3L will def be a full 3L with svt cams

 

[BAD SVT]

From what I have seen yes they do....which is why my next 3L will def be a full 3L with svt cams

By what? 5-9ponies? Neither has been proven to be more dependable than the other, so here's my advice: Do whichever is easiest for you or whichever u feel u wanna do. The difference in hp is absolutely unrecognizable in the driver's seat & on the track. Thats simply why ported is the more common build on here. It's easiest. Period.

 

[aboythatskates]

By what? 5-9ponies? Neither has been proven to be more dependable than the other, so here's my advice: Do whichever is easiest for you or whichever u feel u wanna do. The difference in hp is absolutely unrecognizable in the driver's seat & on the track. Thats simply why ported is the more common build on here. It's easiest. Period.

i wouldn't say a full build is any harder then the ported. why? because u just have to put a few tubes on for vacume lines, change the tb bracket, and a few other small things

 

[SHOgoFast]

Ported is the most simple way to go. Step 1, port heads, install EVERYTHING in stock location. Hell, you could even take it to the dealer for service and they wouldn't even know!

Now, full doesn't really add that much complexity, but dealing with coil pack, TB bracket, IAC code issues, vac lines, fuel rail is far more involved.

 

[BrApple]

don't forget a Full 3L needs a tune right away to deal with the removal of the secondaries. However all 3L engines once installed should be tuned.

 

[aboythatskates]

Ported is the most simple way to go. Step 1, port heads, install EVERYTHING in stock location. Hell, you could even take it to the dealer for service and they wouldn't even know!

Now, full doesn't really add that much complexity, but dealing with coil pack, TB bracket, IAC code issues, vac lines, fuel rail is far more involved.

but what about someone whos not an engine specialist and doesnt know how to port. not to mention if u •••• it up you cant go back. u can fix 1 foot vacume lines.

 

[95_Mystique]

Are those numbers measured at the wheels or the crank? I assume the crank.

Also, so no 3L is more reliable? I've heard the Hybrids have more problems due to the higher CR, but i guess its all in the way you drive it.

 

[BrApple]

but what about someone whos not an engine specialist and doesnt know how to port. not to mention if u •••• it up you cant go back. u can fix 1 foot vacume lines.

maybe they shouldn't be installing a 3L engine then. And people wonder why so many fail

Are those numbers measured at the wheels or the crank? I assume the crank.

Also, so no 3L is more reliable? I've heard the Hybrids have more problems due to the higher CR, but i guess its all in the way you drive it.

no, those numbers are at the wheel. I have never heard of the higher compression ratio being an issue. Again reference csvt1214's car. no issues for over 60k miles.


imho you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Go drive the car and look it over. if its good and the price is right just get it and fix as needed. you shouldn't have any issues with the engine, and if you do just install another 3L.

 

[aboythatskates]

maybe they shouldn't be installing a 3L engine then. And people wonder why so many fail

thats why i went with a full 3L. i could have done one big job. or a bunch of little ones. i chose little ones. also because since i have a cougar i would need to spend alot more money on buying all of the svt parts... it was just too much of a hasstle

 

[95_Mystique]

I'm not trying to make a big deal over it. I just want honest opinions about the Hybrid motors. And HOLY S--T! 200+ HP at the wheels out of a 3L? That's darn impressive. I know they're quick, but i never knew they made that much power.

I am going on the 24th to check the car out, and possibly drive it home. I'm really excited, and want the car no mater what, i just want to know some info and opinions on the motor. I really do appreciate all the info, and i'm looking foward to learn more.

As for mods, what is the best way to open up a stock motor? Its a 3L Hybrid with stock intake and exhaust.

 

[aboythatskates]

pretty much cold air, headers, and exhaust would be your first mods

 

[BAD SVT]

thats why i went with a full 3L. i could have done one big job. or a bunch of little ones. i chose little ones. also because since i have a cougar i would need to spend alot more money on buying all of the svt parts... it was just too much of a hasstle

By the way, if u dont wanna do the work of porting, there's this little piece that a certain 'nautilus performance group' makes. Replace the LIM with this piece, & voila! Done. More expensive yes, but it sure makes the swap VERY easy. Ur situation is different. Most ppl who do the swaps have contours. As has been brought up ad nauseum, the ported is the easiest/simplest way to go. The familiarity with the engine is already there. The OP can do whichever swaps he feels like.

 

[BAD SVT]

...As for mods, what is the best way to open up a stock motor? Its a 3L Hybrid with stock intake and exhaust.

a ported mustang TB is a good addition as well. Forgot the size...

 

[95_Mystique]

Well, no need to do a swap yet. The motor only has ~45K miles on it, and only about 5k since it was built and put in. If anything, i'll build a trans for it first, then build a motor on the side. That way, if anything breaks, i'll be prepared.

 

[BAD SVT]

Well, no need to do a swap yet. The motor only has ~45K miles on it, and only about 5k since it was built and put in. If anything, i'll build a trans for it first, then build a motor on the side. That way, if anything breaks, i'll be prepared.

Oh thats right.