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Heel and Toe Downshift... Can you do it in your CSVT?

B

BoneStock99

CEG'er
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
343
Location
Acworth, GA
Can anyone heel and toe downshift using the stock pedals in an SVT?

I can blip the throttle as I downshift but I have to release the brake to do it.

When I try to do it properly, it is a challenge to maintain control of the brake pedal while also manipulating the gas. Inevitably, I release pressure on the brake and it upsets the car right before the entrance to the turn.

This CSVT is the only manual transmission car I have really attempted it in.

Do I need different pedals or different pedal placement? Do I need to practice more? How long did it take you to learn? How many clutches and transmissions should I expect to go through before it becomes second nature?

Any feedback is appreciated.


-Tim-
 
I used to heal-toe in my fiero all the time, mainly cause I thought I was sweet and it sounded cool. I've tried to do it in the Contour and it's nearly impossible for me. The gas pedal is just too close to the center console and floor. I have small feet and even I can't get it down in the Contour. I don't know about anyone else, but it just doesn't work for me.

Although there is no real-need to heel-toe, at least driving a contour. Even on a track I can't really see a contour liking heel-toeing the way it's generally meant to be used. Driving it on the street there's no reason you'd ever need to or want to heel toe unless you just find it fun. I'd save yourself the wear on your engine and embarrassment and just drive the car normaly.
 
x2 in most real world situations heal toe is over rated in a modern car w/a modern trans w/good synchros, in an older car however w/an older trans /and not so good synchros :shrug:.... kinda funny my old 90 escort I could up or down shift without using the clutch by rev matching but I don't really even dare w/ this car
 
I can heel-toe just fine in the SVT, both with stock pedals and with pedal pads. ive found its actually one of the easier cars to do it with.
 
Every time I slow down a lot or stop I heel toe downshift. It is absolutly necessary to do when I'm racing. Do not downshift your car without hitting your throttle first. That will wear out your syncros pretty fast. The pedal placement is not optimal on the contour for heel toe downshifting. But it's far from unmanageable. It should only take a week or so to get used to it if your practicing on a daily basis. After you get used to the pedal placement, you will become smooth with you downshifts. Then your downshifts should not be affecting your turning.
 
I always found the pedal placement odd in the contour. My feet are too big to do properly. Eventually I was able to roll my ankle and use the side of my foot to blip the throttle.
 
Pudmunkie said:
I always found the pedal placement odd in the contour. My feet are too big to do properly. Eventually I was able to roll my ankle and use the side of my foot to blip the throttle.
Click to expand...

i really agree with PUD. big feet are not always the greatest things to have. sometimes they get in the way more then they help. especially in close cramped quarters like the pedals. (JUST GIVE IT SOME MORE PRACTICE) :D
 
I do it in my svt fine. Sometimes its all in were you place your feet. I highly recommend it. Much easier on the trans and syncros when you do. As you will tell it will be easier to for the shifter to fall in gear when you blip the throttle.
 
I do find that a good throttle blip between gears does help when cold otherwise not so much
 
I really appreciate the encouragement.

Guess I'll have to give it another go and keep trying.

So do you guys roll the top of your foot over to the gas or do you scoot your heel over?


-Tim-
 
Heel and toe is easy as can be in my SVT, but then again I have Autovation aluminum pedal pads with a lip on the left side of the accelerator pedal designed to facilitate the technique. When I know I want to heel-toe, I just press on the brake normally but with my foot very slightly biased to the right and then roll my ankle to hit the accelerator. In the WRX, the standard pedals aren't quite close enough to be able to do that confidently so I do need to actually rotate my foot and use the heel. I'm not nearly as smooth in that car.
 
royalblue said:
x2 in most real world situations heal toe is over rated in a modern car w/a modern trans w/good synchros, in an older car however w/an older trans /and not so good synchros :shrug:.... kinda funny my old 90 escort I could up or down shift without using the clutch by rev matching but I don't really even dare w/ this car
Click to expand...

Not true, if you match the engine speed to the transmission before you begin the shift, you essentially remove the synchro from the equation and extend it's life.

BoneStock99 said:
I really appreciate the encouragement.

Guess I'll have to give it another go and keep trying.

So do you guys roll the top of your foot over to the gas or do you scoot your heel over?


-Tim-
Click to expand...

Depends on the size of your foot, really. My size 13 lets me put my heel squarely between the pedals so I can roll it one way or the other to hit both. For heel-toe downshifts I just press the brake pedal down until I feel my foot touch the gas and just roll into the throttle as necessary. If I need to push the brakes farther than that, I'll just let my foot roll off to the side of the gas pedal until I'm ready to give it a little gas.

The trickiest part for me was keeping the brake pedal in the same position as I rolled my foot onto the gas. When I started practicing I wound up letting off the brake or pushing it down harder.

I've seen people with smaller shoes put their foot infront of the gas and tilt it toward the brake to get the necessary width to make solid contact on both.

~Mike~
 
I heal toe every day. I cannot drive without doing it and I find it very annoying riding with others that don't.

When I was first learning to heal to in my RX-7 I had to add a pedal extension to help. Once I learned my technique I no longer need the extension. Some cars take more time than others.

I usually have half of my toes on the brake and the other half of my foot on the gas. Not quite a traditional heal toe but it works for me.

Also, shoes make a big difference. I hate driving in tennis shoes or any non flat soled shoe. I prefer Adidas Sambas if I am not wearing racing shoes. I have no idea how women can drive in heels.
 
2000SilverSVT said:
I heal toe every day. I cannot drive without doing it and I find it very annoying riding with others that don't.

When I was first learning to heal to in my RX-7 I had to add a pedal extension to help. Once I learned my technique I no longer need the extension. Some cars take more time than others.

I usually have half of my toes on the brake and the other half of my foot on the gas. Not quite a traditional heal toe but it works for me.

Also, shoes make a big difference. I hate driving in tennis shoes or any non flat soled shoe. I prefer Adidas Sambas if I am not wearing racing shoes. I have no idea how women can drive in heels or barefoot.
Click to expand...

fixed :laugh:

i usually hit the right edge of the brake pedal and catch the throttle with the rest of my foot or heel


and for those of you who think the contour has a relatively small pedal box, check out a "book" locost/caterham 7. its about 10-12" wide with zero extra space.
 
r-code said:
The trickiest part for me was keeping the brake pedal in the same position as I rolled my foot onto the gas. When I started practicing I wound up letting off the brake or pushing it down harder.
Click to expand...

Exactly Mike, thanks.


2000SilverSVT said:
When I was first learning to heal to in my RX-7 I had to add a pedal extension to help.
Click to expand...

Interesting...


rollinstylee said:
...but then again I have Autovation aluminum pedal pads with a lip on the left side of the accelerator pedal designed to facilitate the technique.
Click to expand...

Yes... I see them at http://www.autovationparts.com/store/fordcontour.html.

Thanks guys!


-Tim-
 
BoneStock99 said:
Exactly Mike, thanks.

-Tim-
Click to expand...

If that's what's giving you trouble, start at lower RPM's where you don't have to give it as much gas to match the next gear. You won't have to move your foot as much to make the switch smoothly, so the chances of you disturbing the brake pedal are reduced, and you'll still begin to establish muscle memory.

~Mike~
 
r-code said:
Not true, if you match the engine speed to the transmission before you begin the shift, you essentially remove the synchro from the equation and extend it's life.

~Mike~
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstand me :shrug:I have no problem with rev matching or throttle blip shifting :cool:and as far as making a trans last longer most of gearbox's have had well in excess of 200k :shocked::dizzy: .maybe I'am jealous as I'am somewhat duckfooted:blackeye: just saying it's not required to get there
 
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