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3L trouble!!

P

posthuman63t

Veteran CEG'er
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
608
Location
Wisconsin
Well, last night I was driving home from dropping my girl off at her house, and I noticed the exhaust sounding funny. I turned off the music and it sounded almost like the car was misfiring (1amish). This morning I went to start the car up to go to school and it started and the revs quickly died out and the car killed. I tried starting it again and it did, and i even gave it a little gas and it reved up and then died same as last. Pretty much it will start, but then it wont keep running without the gas peddle engaged.

I have checked my vacuum lines to make sure they are all tight...I am about to go and check for leaks as well. Other than that I don't really know what it could be. Possibly the idler control valve? Any suggestions are welcome!

(I also check all my electrical connections and they seem plugged and proper)

2003 3L Taurus
2000 svt LIM and up
On its second tank of gas after swap
 
I ran a scan and got the codes 0430 and 1000.

Seems as though its a bank 2 o2 sensor and the 1000 I read is nothing to be ocncerned about. It is most likely faulty because of my other code.

Bank 2 o2 sensor...Which one is that? I know my Rear o2's should be off via the prp.
 
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todras said:
Sounds like a bad cat or o2.
Click to expand...

Well, I did re-use the o2's that were on my svt. They had about 75K on them. And I only have the 1 main cat that I got w/ my trubendz y-pipe.

Would the bad o2 sensor cause it to not keep running? I figured it would run, just poorly...and it doesnt even want to stay running for more than 2 seconds.

Which o2 is the rear bank? Is that the sensor in the front header or the rear header?
 
I am gettting the same codes. Except I also have like 5 more...I'm gonna run outside and check my codes after I poo...brb

Ok, I had the same issue for a bit. I would start it up and it wouldn't hang enough and it would stall immediatly. I would then start her again and blip the throttle and all would be fine. In my tune I went into the scalars (under idle) and changed the rpm error_from_desired_to_begin_idle_control. "This is used at startup. Once the actualy RPM gets within this amount of desired idle RPM, the PCM will begin controlling idle. It is best to set this value high, like 700-800 on modified cars so that it can correct faster after starting."

Just a thought.

Also my current codes are P0402, P0172, P0430, P1000...I too have my lower o2s off and I am wondering if this is my issue.

Well I was thinking of those codes p0172 and p0402 and those are new...so ya I went out to my car and killed two birds with one stone...my vac line for the EGR was melted. DOH!!
 
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well, I just tried changing the idler scalar and it started like usual, jumped up a little higher in RPM's then started coming down and just kept going and it killed. Tried starting it again and this time giving it a couple small touches on the accelerator, and once i stopped, right back down and killed again.

The damn thing wont stay running! It won't even idle for a few seconds. Just starts and the rpm's come down and KILL.
 
MapOfTaziFoSho said:
Are you using a TH fix?! Just curious. It sounds like your IAC is bad, but I was under the impression taht you would throw a code for that.
Click to expand...

No, not using the TH fix.

My CEL never even came on for the codes that I do have, and yes, it does work, it lights up with the key in the run position.


Based on the codes I did pull, I think I should just buy a new o2 sensor and see if that fixes my problem.

Does anyone think it could be because of my Lightshow A/F gauge? I've had that installed since I did the swap (and its been on for a tank of gas) ...but it is hooked into that very same sensor that is bad. I did use a larger wire to run from the sensor to the gauge (i think the wires for the sensor are like 16g, and the one I used to run is like 10/12g). I dont think that would trip a code, but if it was somehow interfering...(possibility?)
 
MapOfTaziFoSho said:
Why!? He isn't throwing a code for that! He is throwing the below linked code...

http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/generic/p0430-catalyst-efficiency-below-threshold-bank-2.php
Click to expand...


He has P0430. Does not have precats (which means he has mileliminators and hence should not have P0430). Which means the P0430 is not due to a Precat condition but because of some other reason. There is no mention of an exhaust leak.

From your link.

"Causes
A code P0430 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:

The catalytic converter is no longer functioning properly
An oxygen sensor is not reading (functioning) properly
There is an exhaust leak"
 
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Tony2005 said:
MapOfTaziFoSho said:
He has P0430. Does not have precats (which means he has mileliminators and hence should not have P0430). Which means the P0430 is not due to a Precat condition but because of some other reason.
Click to expand...

WHAT?!?!?!

MIL eliminators don't always work. If they are done wrong they will fail and the result is that code coming back.

I am still missing your point as to why he should be replacing his upper bank 2 o2...

"Next step is to measure the voltage at the oxygen sensor on Bank 2 (the passenger side rear sensor, or the sensor after the converter)"


Yes and from that article it also states a an oxygen sensor past the catalytic converter...
Click to expand...
 
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MapOfTaziFoSho said:
WHAT?!?!?!

MIL eliminators don't always work. If they are done wrong they will fail and the result is that code coming back.

I am still missing your point as to why he should be replacing his upper bank 2 o2...

"Next step is to measure the voltage at the oxygen sensor on Bank 2 (the passenger side rear sensor, or the sensor after the converter)"


Yes and from that article it also states a an oxygen sensor past the catalytic converter...
Click to expand...

If posthuman thinks his mileliminator is the problem, he should change it. If not, then he can listen to posted advice (or not ;) ).

From TSB,
P0430 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 2) Indicates Bank 2 catalyst system efficiency is below the acceptable threshold. ·
Malfunctioning ECT/CHT
· High fuel pressure
· Damaged exhaust manifold
· Cylinder misfiring
· HO2S wiring concerns (shorted or chafed, bent pins, etc.)
· Damaged exhaust system pipe
· Damaged muffler/tailpipe assembly
· Retarded spark timing

Damaged Catalytic Converter:
· Use of leaded fuel
· Oil contamination/consumption
· Silicone contamination (sealants/cleaners)
 
posthuman63t said:
No, not using the TH fix.

My CEL never even came on for the codes that I do have, and yes, it does work, it lights up with the key in the run position.


Based on the codes I did pull, I think I should just buy a new o2 sensor and see if that fixes my problem.

Does anyone think it could be because of my Lightshow A/F gauge? I've had that installed since I did the swap (and its been on for a tank of gas) ...but it is hooked into that very same sensor that is bad. I did use a larger wire to run from the sensor to the gauge (i think the wires for the sensor are like 16g, and the one I used to run is like 10/12g). I dont think that would trip a code, but if it was somehow interfering...(possibility?)
Click to expand...

The car can run with a bad O2 sensor, happens all the time.

You sound like a either a bad vacuum leak like a hose clamp came off, pcv popped off or maybe the fuel tank cannister purge line.

Somethign came loose. Maybe the maf plug or the maf hookups.

Also, Mapoftazi, that idle speed control you were discussing should have nothing to do with it.
 
I've started a war!

Anyways...So everyone knows, I DO NOT HAVE ANY MIL ELIMINATORS! I have the rear o2's turned off (prp: scalars>rear o2's>All set to 0 (zero))

There is no exhaust leak. Running MSDS headers, Trubendz y w/hi flow cat, Trubendz Catback.

Car ran fine for the past couple weeks (post swap). I went through a tank of gas with no issues, and I'm on my second with about 3/4 tank left. Car was running fine (minus being a little boggy between 2-2.5k) when the car started acting out.

( I do have an o2 sensor off a y-pipe that I am not using, if there is enough length, could I use that? I just thought about it, figured I'd ask)
 
warmonger said:
The car can run with a bad O2 sensor, happens all the time.

You sound like a either a bad vacuum leak like a hose clamp came off, pcv popped off or maybe the fuel tank cannister purge line.

Somethign came loose. Maybe the maf plug or the maf hookups.

Also, Mapoftazi, that idle speed control you were discussing should have nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

All lines to the upper plenum are in tact and connected. All connections(wiring) is connected. I can't even check for a vac leak right now because the car wont even keep running...

I don't know how something could have come loose (although **** happens right?) but everything looks intact, I even made sure by removong/reinstalling the vac connections.
 
posthuman63t said:
I've started a war!

Anyways...So everyone knows, I DO NOT HAVE ANY MIL ELIMINATORS! I have the rear o2's turned off (prp: scalars>rear o2's>All set to 0 (zero))

There is no exhaust leak. Running MSDS headers, Trubendz y w/hi flow cat, Trubendz Catback.

Car ran fine for the past couple weeks (post swap). I went through a tank of gas with no issues, and I'm on my second with about 3/4 tank left. Car was running fine (minus being a little boggy between 2-2.5k) when the car started acting out.

( I do have an o2 sensor off a y-pipe that I am not using, if there is enough length, could I use that? I just thought about it, figured I'd ask)
Click to expand...

LOL. You did not start a war. Not that I know of anyway. Yes, try the "spare" o2 sensor. You can't go wrong there.

"The car can run with a bad O2 sensor, happens all the time.

You sound like a either a bad vacuum leak like a hose clamp came off, pcv popped off or maybe the fuel tank cannister purge line.

Somethign came loose. Maybe the maf plug or the maf hookups." warmonger.
 
I'll go try that sensor, but what/where is the fuel tank canister purge line? I am not familiar at all with this.

**EDIT**

The connectors on the sensors are dif. Looks like I will have to buy a new one if it turns out thats what it was.
 
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posthuman63t said:
.. what/where is the fuel tank canister purge line? I am not familiar at all with this.
...
Don't think this might be the problem but if you want to see what it looks like in a Pre98, here is a link.
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1b/be/d1/0900823d801bbed1.jsp

Note that there is a test port (green cap) for 1999 and later models for fuel vacuum line
tests. It should lead to the canister purge solenoid valve and vapor management valve.

Fig 8 in this link has a schematic of the vacuum lines.
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1e/b2/f9/0900823d801eb2f9.jsp
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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I'm at a loss for what to attempt. Everything looks fine under the hood, as far as vac lines and electrical connections. I pulled a 0430 code (no CEL) and I don't know if I should og buy a new one and see if that fixes it or not...if it doesn't i'm out $50.

Like mentioned before, the way the car runs you would think its a large vacuum leak but everything looks fine. I would like to attempt to check the vac lines for leaks using...some propane or carb cleaner or something...but I can't even get the car running for more than a couple seconds to even attempt it.
 
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