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time for new suspension components

I have no doubt you can modify the rear subframe for these ES brackets - I have seen it done. I just felt that MadDog could just as easily and for less $$, use the BAT bushings.
 
I plan on using the BAT bushings, never having done this before. Small steps for me.

thanks,

Mad Dog
 
Am I better off looking for an "new", unused rear subframe or pulling one off a junker and saving $130 ?

thanks,

Mad Dog
 
If I try and remove the subframe on my car (my experience level = newb) and put all the new parts on, including the welding reinforcement, and get it back on, then get it aligned properly it will take some time (even assuming I don't screw something up). The car is my daily driver. I have been thinking about getting another CSVT daily driver, but havnt been able to find one very close at a reasonable price point.

thanks,

Mad Dog
 
If I am hearing you correctly, I am of the opinion that you go with the BAT bar and bushings. Unless you have rust already on your subframe, in the area of the rear sway bar mounting points, you do not need to do any reinforcements made to the rear subframe. I realize that a rear bar of 21mm is large, but unless you have the aforementioned rust, you will need to do some serious suspension mods in order to stress these mounts to the point of breaking. Add to the above that you are a self admitted "newbie", I would start out like most of us - large dreams and short term modifications. Do you realize what the results will be, when you push your SVT to limits (handling) with just the rear suspension mods, particularly with a 21mm rear bar and the rest of your suspension stock and/or tired (well worn)? Returning your SVT to "new stock" will deliver performance improvements; granted, if your bushing require replacement (probably do, as well as rear stab links, then by all means take this time to upgrade at little to no cost above OEM parts. Take a look at this very simple explanation of understeer/oversteer and you should see where I am coming from - http://www.drivingfast.net/

Hope this helps - Just offering guidance from 45+ years experience and 3 sons who all have made many mod's to their rides.
 
One of the few advantages living in the southeast is that no one around here has the foggiest idea what "road salt" is. Accordingly, there is little frame or body rust on most vehicles here.

Replacing the sub-frame (and more) is not so much a question of me wanting to revel in a mid-life crisis and track the car, but wanting to rebuild the vehicle as part of learning experience (and avoiding a $30K new car payment). I also figure if I am going to replace parts, I might as well use quality components and rebuild it better than stock. If I am going to do this, I want the car to last another 15 years.

After 230K miles (all original equipment), I figure the suspension almost all needs replacement. Shocks and struts are a must. The Massive or PRT rear lower arms and 21mm sway bar are admittedly overkill for my intentions (daily driver), but look burly enough to last through the Zombie Apocalypse.

I don't want to sound like I am ignoring your advice - I appreciate everything you and others have told me.

thanks,

Mad Dog
 
it shouldnt be a problem down there, but having just had to cut 4 bolts off on the car im scrapping to get the rear suspension off, for a number of days prior to doing this spray everything down with some penetration lube. it will make life easier
 
MadDog said:
One of the few advantages living in the southeast is that no one around here has the foggiest idea what "road salt" is. Accordingly, there is little frame or body rust on most vehicles here.

Replacing the sub-frame (and more) is not so much a question of me wanting to revel in a mid-life crisis and track the car, but wanting to rebuild the vehicle as part of learning experience (and avoiding a $30K new car payment). I also figure if I am going to replace parts, I might as well use quality components and rebuild it better than stock. If I am going to do this, I want the car to last another 15 years.

After 230K miles (all original equipment), I figure the suspension almost all needs replacement. Shocks and struts are a must. The Massive or PRT rear lower arms and 21mm sway bar are admittedly overkill for my intentions (daily driver), but look burly enough to last through the Zombie Apocalypse.

I don't want to sound like I am ignoring your advice - I appreciate everything you and others have told me.

thanks,

Mad Dog
Click to expand...

Oh I so hear you and this is an individual thing.....we all throw $$$ to our rides, some more and sooner than others, but we all get there eventually. Having grown up in Jacksonville, Fla. I hear you about road salt - lack there of.

instead of buying another daily driver while your's is "laid up", have you thought of a rental car for a week or so? Much cheaper and if you take time off to work on your ride, then a week or two is the norm. btw - I have a used, mint condition rear sub frame that I would sell you. Being it's the 'west coast version', it is as rust free as possible, next to new. Shipping cost is the "catch 22".

PB Blaster is my choice of drugs as far as penetrating oils go.
 
Jaged - my biggest concern about scrapping from a junker is getting under one. Even the best boneyard in the area has the cars up on 4 dodgy looking rims under the body. Im not hot about the idea about getting under a car in that condition. I could bring jack stands, but thats no guarantee on the gravel beds.

Contour-r-us, I will PM you on the sub-frame. I hadn't thought about a rental. Part of me doesn't like the idea of getting another car just to fix one up, but then again, it would bring peace of mind if I really screw up. Then of course, the "time off from work" thing - no time to spare...

thanks,

Mad Dog
 
That's why I picked up my SVT Focus. Found it on CL, guy did a lot of work to it, then it wouldn't start, he didn't want to diagnose and sold it to me for cheap. Seeing as how I already had a reliable DD with the Contour, I was able to take my time and fix it. Now the SVT runs great, so the Contour can safely get torn apart to begin serious modding. I was in the same boat as you are, Contour was my only car and I wanted to seriously mod it but couldn't afford to have it down for more than a day or 2 depending on when I got them off, now I have a reliable DD that I don't have much money into and can afford to tear the Contour apart and leave it that way for a while if I need/want too.

Plus it was too low for winter, but you won't have that problem. Key is to be patient, I was looking for 6-7 months for a good enough deal before one actually came along, but with the money I have in the SVT I could realistically drive it for 2-3 more years and still get more than I paid for out of it.
 
This approach (owning multiple rides) works for some; my take is I now have TWO rides to repair/maintain and barely can find time to repair/maintain ONE, what with driving 72 miles round trip daily. Rental car, while mine is down, has worked best for me. Each to their own.
 
Thanks to contour-r-us for selling me a subframe so I can do things right the first time.

I did have another suspension question. As I learn which part is which, I like to look under the car to reinforce the idea. Looking at the front ball joints, I found this for both ball joint bushings :

IMG_0260..JPG

Is this something I should "fix soon" (my intention), or "Dont-Drive-This-Vehicle-For-Any-Reason ? When I took the wheel off, I tried to look for slack, but it all feels pretty tight.

I apologize for so many questions in a short time.

thanks,

Mad Dog
 
This is not a good condition, but not necessarily a "don't drive for any reason" situation. This rubber boot provides protection from the elements destroying (over time) the ball joint itself. If they were in really bad condition, you would be reporting noises while going over bumps/curbs as well as abnormal tire wear due to excessive camber changes. Checking for ball joint wear requires the load being removed from the ball joint itself - this is accomplished in a number of ways (search will reveal procedure). I would replace these ball joints, for certain. It is time consuming, and not all that expensive. Procedures are posted, with excellent pictures, on this forum - search will reveal. At this time of ball joint R&R, would be opportune to verify condition of the lower control arm (LCA) bushings for wear due to miles/age. Again, search this forum. Let us know if you need assistance with this search. Excellent photo btw!
 
Thanks for the input. I have the 2 bolt LCA (I finally understand why people hate them) and the bushings are worn, but intact.

While I can't see into the ball joint metal stud, given that the car has virtually no rust anywhere, there shouldn't be any corrosion problems.

Honestly the whole car makes clunks and clinks and groans when I go over bumps at low speed. I wouldn't know where to start trying to locate a particular noise. : )

thanks,

Mad Dog
 
Its Game On. The BAT parts arrived.

suspension parts&#.jpg

The PRT parts and the sub-frame are still to arrive, but I am committed now. Time to get serious.

I still need a set of trailing arm bushings, but otherwise I will have all the parts for the rear suspension.

Once I get that done I can concentrate on the front suspension components.

Mad Dog
 
I was hoping you were a little closer, I would help you knock this out in a weekend. Your about four hours away though. :(
 
I appreciate the thought. Not only am I far away from any used CSVT for sale (they all seem to be in PA, OH, WI......), but I am not near anyone who has done this before.

Go figure.

Well, my initial plan is to go to the Pull a Part and remove a strut from a junker as practice. I go there often enough anyway....

thanks,

Mad Dog
 
Simple is good. I need simple. Did I mention I Am Newb ?

Whats this talk in the factory manual about "rear subframe alignment pins" ?

Should I replace the rear struts and do the subframe replacement later, or should I do it all at once ?

thanks,

Mad Dog
 
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