What I hate about mechanics

[98SVTC]

While many good points have been made in this thread, I think this is the best one. I mean, seriously people, what do you do if your car doesn't start? Check the battery :help: . Clearly, when the tow truck driver popped the hood and saw corrosion on the terminals, you'd think a little light would go off in his head. "Hey, let's clean the terminals and then give it a try." But they do a charging system test? Bah, that's unnecessary and you know it...

Well, that's what the owner should have done - check the battery cables, clean them, tighten them, etc. - but once the car gets into the shop, the book comes out. Do tow truck drivers carry tools to do "light" repairs anyway? Battery cables to jump start a customer's car sure but I don't think they make any repairs. That's never happened to me (knock on wood) so I don't know. Regardless, like I wrote in another post, if for what ever reason, a person is unable to fix their car, they shouldn't make a big thing about how a technician does it. They're just going "by the book".

And technicians are people too and people, being the sensitive types they usually are, can pick up a customer's negative attitude and that may not make one's stay at the shop any more enjoyable. Hate (or hater) is an overly dramatic word which is overused to the point of infinity. However, I'm sure what the OP really meant to write was "what I hate about the procedures that mechanics have to take in order to fix my car when I can't but now I understand why" or something like that. Right? :laugh:
Karl

 

[Big Jim]

But they do a charging system test? Bah, that's unnecessary and you know it...

Not checking the charging system is taking a short cut and is risky. Any time you take short cuts you risk having it come back and biting you in the a**.

Good mechanics learn that the risk isn't worth it.

You go ahead and open a shop and take all of these short cuts and see how long you stay in business.

 

[mcgarvey]

2.5 hours to figure out what's wrong with something means you should take it to another mechanic. With today's technology and computerized systems it usually takes about 15-20 minutes tops.

Please, do you really think that's how it works? Just plug in the scanner, read the code, and replace what it says, right. It's not nearly that simple, diagnosing car problems takes a lot of experience. Anyone can pull a code and guess at what's wrong, it's not that easy to DIAGNOSE a problem and repair it, not just throw parts at it.

If you like the type of mechanic who just guesses and replaces parts at your expense, then look for the one that only takes a few minutes-- he just pulls the code and declares that he's found the cause of the problem.

Suit yourself.

 

[eepals]

I agree with you there mcgarvey.

But you didn't answer my earlier reply to your earlier post on the first page.

 

[btrautman]

95 seems a little high. Other factors....how long of a drive did the toe truck have to make. Did he travel 5 miles or 50? If he traveled over 50 miles, then this would seem reasonable.

Now on the other hand if he is 6 miles away.....this would be high. The 45 to 50 dollars seems reasonable.

Oh, don't forget to factor in the female equation with some Tow Truck Operators.....

Bob

so tony you got me thinking i called the shop and asked them how much the cost of cleaning the terminals was 5 bucks a side. and 45 bucks for the truck to come out and she just told me they did a charging system test(supposedly) she maintains they never hooked anything up to the car not even a jump pack. so like i said shady mechanics i mean how can you do a charging system test with out hooking anything up to the battery to check voltage and what not.

 

[kcobra]

dude had to drive about a 1/4 mile. and the girl is beautiful.

 

[mcgarvey]

You sure, that doesn't sound right.
You mean your shop would allow a custmoer to say "I want another opinion", the customer pays an hour labor and leaves. Your shop just spent for example lets say 2.5 hrs to diagnose a problem? That's no way to run a business.

Sorry, you're right, I missed this post. Anyway, while it's true that some things may take several hours to figure out, a no-start condition usually has just a few possible causes. For example, battery, terminals, cables, starter solenoid, starter motor, clutch safety switch, etc. Because of this, the standard diagnostic time is one hour for this condition. It's actually an hour for most things-- If a customer comes in with a CEL, they pay an hour to have us look at it, and then the parts and labor goes on top of that.

What I have seen, but only rarely, is a car will come in with a really strange problem, ie. the kind of thing a bad wiring harness will cause or something along those lines, and while the customer will initially be told that they'll owe $95 for an hour's diagnostic time, the tech will tell the service writer that they need more time to look into it.

In my experience, sometimes you'll get more time, but other times, you'll have to continue the diagnosis without further compensation and then sell service work to make up for it. If you work in a shop where you are guaranteed 40 hours weekly, you're in a much better position to take your time and accurately diagnose the problem.

To all the non-mechanics out there who want to know what to look for in a shop, my advice is to go to a UNION shop (employees will be guaranteed a paycheck, whether they scrape to make flat rate time or not) and one that doesn't try to push all kinds of "flushes" and services. Shops like that are more interested in selling the gravy service work than fixing cars.

 

[fornetti14]

I had a CEL so I went to Advance Auto to see if they would pull the code for me. They wanted to charge me $85 for it and I told them, I'll go to Auto Zone where they do it for free.

I picked up a new code reader on ebay for $30 shipped! It's small enough to fit in my glove box.

 

[mcgarvey]

I picked up a new code reader on ebay for $30 shipped! It's small enough to fit in my glove box.

I'm trying to find an inexpensive one for home that reads and clears codes and also can read snapshot data. I haven't seen anything for less than a few hundred, but I'm really only exposed to what's carried on the tool trucks-- and Snapon, Matco, etc. isnt known for being reasonably priced.

 

[Tony2005]

I'm trying to find an inexpensive one for home that reads and clears codes and also can read snapshot data. I haven't seen anything for less than a few hundred, but I'm really only exposed to what's carried on the tool trucks-- and Snapon, Matco, etc. isnt known for being reasonably priced.

I think you can get a Actron for about $150 which will read freeze frames.

 

[Big Daddy Kane]

Blah... this thread sucks.

I'll just throw in my $0.02 about tow trucks.

When I PCSd to Montana, I was on my way and got a flat near Sturgis, SD on my old 96 GL. Of course, the hollow lug wrench bent and was useless, so I was trying to get ahold of people back home with VERY poor cell service when a local Sheriff pulled up.

She called up a buddy who owns a towing service. He came out after hours (it's like 8pm by now) just to change my tire. Service was only like $20, but the after hours and mileage were $70 combined. So I paid like $90 and still had about 700 more miles to go on the spare.

I have ADAC here (equivalent to AAA), and had to use them once already for a tow which more than paid for the subscription for that year.

It was a reasonable price! Get over it!

 

[rollinstylee]

I will never understand why people don't just use battery terminal protector spray. It's a few bucks for a can that'll last years and it doesn't let a speck of corrosion form. Should be common sense prevention for any car owner like knowing it needs the oil changed occasionally or the tires decently inflated. :shrug:

 

[mcgarvey]

Should be common sense prevention for any car owner like knowing it needs the oil changed occasionally or the tires decently inflated. :shrug:

You'd be amazed at how many people can't even handle that. I'd even venture to say that MOST don't EVER check their tire pressure. Probably 75% of the cars I work on have less than 25psi.

I personally use white lithium grease on the battery terminals, the kind that comes in a tube, not the aerosol. Basically, anything that keeps moisture and air from coming in contact with the metal will do the job.

BTW, does anyone else still have the original factory battery in their car? On all my other cars I've had to change the batteries usually every 3-4 years, but the Mystique cranks fast even on the coldest days with that old Motorcraft battery. I figure I got a good one, and I won't get that lucky again, so I'm not replacing it until I have to. To me, it's the one exception to my normal rule of replacing parts before they wear out. I do take it out of the car about once a year and wash it really well, clean and regrease the terminals, so I'm sure this helps.

 

[Tony2005]

The original battery on mine died after 3.5 years. I had an Interstate for almost 7 years and it was still working fine until one day when I saw some corrosion on one of the terminals (I think it was the +ve) and decided that I had a good run and got a new one then, rather than cleanning it and hoping it doesn't happen again.

 

[98SVTC]

I will never understand why people don't just use battery terminal protector spray. It's a few bucks for a can that'll last years and it doesn't let a speck of corrosion form. Should be common sense prevention for any car owner like knowing it needs the oil changed occasionally or the tires decently inflated. :shrug:

I've found that those red and green fiber ring things that go on the terminal below the cable end work pretty well too but the other methods listed work good as well.
Karl

 

[SVT_CT]

One more thing about garage charges:

I have no problem with the theory of flat rate pricing, but I have often seen people charged extra by garages because the job "took a lot longer than expected". So if the job is finished quicker than book the garage benefits, but if it takes longer the customer still pays. Is this even legal?

 

[mcgarvey]

One more thing about garage charges:

I have no problem with the theory of flat rate pricing, but I have often seen people charged extra by garages because the job "took a lot longer than expected". So if the job is finished quicker than book the garage benefits, but if it takes longer the customer still pays. Is this even legal?

Yes and no. To simply charge the customer more after the fact because the job took more time, no that isn't ethical and probably not legal either. Only a shady place would try to pull something like that.

That said, if I'm working on a job and I encounter a major problem, like a broken fastener, extreme rust, so much leaking oil that you can't even find the source, etc., I will on occasion ask for additional labor time. The service writer at that point goes to the customer, explains the problem to the customer, and asks them to authorize extra labor expenses to overcome the problem. I try to do this as infrequently as possible, simply because I don't like to be known as the guy who always whines and moans.

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. I was trying to remove a water pump when one of the studs broke off flush with the block because it was rusted through and seized. I tried to drill a pilot hole into the stud and use an extractor, but the extractor broke off inside the hole. I then tried to drill a bigger hole, but drilling into the hardened steel of my extractor bit just wasn't working. At that point, I realized I had a real problem, and asked for an extra hour to work that thing out of there. In the end I just broke even, it was like 2.5 hours for the water pump, and an additional 1 for the bolt removal. It took me 2 hours to do the pump, and about 1 and a half to get that bolt.

This happens now and then-- In that case, it wasn't my fault that the stud broke-- More than likely, it was because the customer rarely if ever changed his coolant. In a case like that, should I have to work for free?

 

[SVT_CT]

Yes and no. To simply charge the customer more after the fact because the job took more time, no that isn't ethical and probably not legal either. Only a shady place would try to pull something like that.

That said, if I'm working on a job and I encounter a major problem, like a broken fastener, extreme rust, so much leaking oil that you can't even find the source, etc., I will on occasion ask for additional labor time. The service writer at that point goes to the customer, explains the problem to the customer, and asks them to authorize extra labor expenses to overcome the problem. I try to do this as infrequently as possible, simply because I don't like to be known as the guy who always whines and moans.

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. I was trying to remove a water pump when one of the studs broke off flush with the block because it was rusted through and seized. I tried to drill a pilot hole into the stud and use an extractor, but the extractor broke off inside the hole. I then tried to drill a bigger hole, but drilling into the hardened steel of my extractor bit just wasn't working. At that point, I realized I had a real problem, and asked for an extra hour to work that thing out of there. In the end I just broke even, it was like 2.5 hours for the water pump, and an additional 1 for the bolt removal. It took me 2 hours to do the pump, and about 1 and a half to get that bolt.

This happens now and then-- In that case, it wasn't my fault that the stud broke-- More than likely, it was because the customer rarely if ever changed his coolant. In a case like that, should I have to work for free?

If you always charge book rates I wouldn't think it would be free labor. The overcharges and undercharges should even out over time.

When a job takes a lot less time than it is quoted, do you charge the customer for the real labor instead of book? I'm not saying to charge $5 for a 10 minute job, but how about charging one hour if it took 10 mins of work but the book says 3 hours? The only time I've heard of that happening is if someone personally knows the mechanic.

It seems to me that honest mechanics should either charge book all the time, or charge an extra hour occaisionally AND charge less money when it makes sense. If I'm paying for mechanic work for some reason, I never complain about paying the quoted price even if I know it took less time. I am paying for the convenience of not working on your car. It's just when so many mechanics have added on to the quoted bills, but never reduced them that makes me wonder. It's part of the reason I work on my own cars (unless I'm out of town and tool-less and my car breaks down)

I know some people will get fired up about this and say most mechanics are honest which I'm sure is true, but there are enough dishonest ones to taint the whole industry. Also I have never been able to find an honest one close to me. If someone knows of an honest one in Central Connecticut then maybe I will start paying someone to work on my car

 

[TGO]

so tony you got me thinking i called the shop and asked them how much the cost of cleaning the terminals was 5 bucks a side. and 45 bucks for the truck to come out and she just told me they did a charging system test(supposedly) she maintains they never hooked anything up to the car not even a jump pack. so like i said shady mechanics i mean how can you do a charging system test with out hooking anything up to the battery to check voltage and what not.

you need to quit yer in' and teach your mom some common sense preventative maintenance.

$95 for a tow and whatever else they did is reasonable....

 

[xtascox]

Wow this thread is starting to get old... Things seem to repeat every page. Here's the point:

1. There are honest and non honest mechanics.

2. Prices are charged by book rate whether time goes over or under(for the most part).

3. Preventive maintenance will save you a lot of $$$$ in the future.

4. And most of all if you don't like the price AFTER you get another quote or two, DO IT YOURSELF AND STOP COMPLAINING! That money you pay for labor is also making it so you don't have to do it yourself. So choose whichever you want.