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which IM for 3.0?

morbid said:
I thought it was jb welded. With "high velocity ports", most people use jb weld on the floors.... and I haven't heard of anyone having it come loose. Having it welded would ease the mind though.
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really? thats surprising. I wonder how hard it is to DIY this project?
 
Yes ... but I don't drink alcohol! Use this money for some extra horsepower is better for fun and health! :cool:
 
ST200 said:
A longer time ago I found some pics here ... now I can't find them again:

Someone used liquid metal (ore something else) to convert a oval port head to 2 singe ports (like 2.5 head). Can you tell me something about that?! Which materials are used ... does it work ... does it unfasten after a longer time?

I think this would be ideal for my needs. I want to use a ST220 block, ST220 heads, ST200 LIM + UIM, ST200 cams. Only the higher RPM's are interesting for me.
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Do you have the ST220 UIM?
 
Ich leiba Paulener und Warsteiner dukel!!!

wenn Sie den ST220 uim haben, sollten Sie ein Deutscher sprechen.

was Sie an den koln Fußballklub diese Jahreszeit denken?
 
I've the ST220 engine parts from a discontinued motorsport project. Short block is complete without pistons and rods (actually trying to get some payable new). Than there are 4 heads ... 2 stock with all ST220 internals and 2 with bigger valve seats (but no matching valves). I don't want to use the big valve heads ... I think it makes no sense to use it together with SVT (ST200) intake.
There are no intake parts here ... I know that everyone trys to get one.

@KAOS_2.5M:
Bier und Fußball ist mir egal! Ich bin ein schlechter Deutscher! :crazy:
Motorrad Rennsport ist viel besser, besonders Supermoto!!! :laugh:
KTM rockt!!! :cool:
 
KAOS_2.5M said:
Ich leiba Paulener und Warsteiner dukel!!!

wenn Sie den ST220 uim haben, sollten Sie ein Deutscher sprechen.

was Sie an den koln Fußballklub diese Jahreszeit denken?
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ST200 said:
I've the ST220 engine parts from a discontinued motorsport project. Short block is complete without pistons and rods (actually trying to get some payable new). Than there are 4 heads ... 2 stock with all ST220 internals and 2 with bigger valve seats (but no matching valves). I don't want to use the big valve heads ... I think it makes no sense to use it together with SVT (ST200) intake.
There are no intake parts here ... I know that everyone trys to get one.

@KAOS_2.5M:
Bier und Fußball ist mir egal! Ich bin ein schlechter Deutscher! :crazy:
Motorrad Rennsport ist viel besser, besonders Supermoto!!! :laugh:
KTM rockt!!! :cool:
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KAOS_2.5M said:
kein Bier? kein Fußball?... das ist blaphemy!!

motoGP ist kuhl, aber ich folge ihm nicht, weil ich kein Motorrad habe
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Take the German to P.M's, it isn't helping anyone here. Even though I can read most of it. :laugh:
 
KAOS_2.5M said:
Don't be such a platypus... sour patch!

it's not hurting anyone either
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It's not hurting anyone, but when someone is searching for info on something, they have to look threw all the gibberish. Normally I am not one say anything, since I go off topic just a little bit :laugh: but there are threads/forums that shouldn't be taken too far off topic. The 3.0L forum, I think, is one of them. All the info in this area is here to help people get there car running right, figuring out what would be best for their car etc. Not trying to figure out what some guy wrote in German. If you want to speak German, throw it into the C.I. section.
 
It appears I've started something here...

The point(s) that I would make are this: other than the newest 3.0 cams, the SVT cams were the biggest available at the time. The 3.0 cams were the same p/n's as 2.5's at least early on (exception was the LH intake cam with no H2O pump pulley). More displacement can handle more lift and/or duration w/out the drawbacks like lopey idle, running rich, etc. So the bigger SVT cams should work better in a 3.0 than the stock (automatic trans) cams but they make power higher up the RPM range - fine if your car is a stick.

Second point: Cams and IM's are normally designed to work as a package.

Third point: The dyno doesn't lie. People here like to play with different combos and power to y'all. The rest of us benefit by seeing what works and what doesn't.

Fourth point: Porting, when done properly, will always provide an improvement over a non ported cylinder head. I specifically asked about IM's, not ported heads. Unless "ported 3.0" really means "gasket matching" the split port LIM to the oval port cylinder head. Really, porting is reshaping and/or refinishing the ports from inlet to valve seat (intake) and valve seat to outlet (exhaust).

Last (personal) point. I much prefer the look of the stock, nest o' snakes, cast UIM. As others have said, the plastic 3.0 IM doesn't look right. Plus you have to dick around with the rail and the EGR (does the throttle linkage work?). I've never had a problem with an IMRC box either. For the correct appearance I'm willing to give up some TQ/HP-but that's my preference. The 3.0 is still a big step up from a 2.5 and I'd do it again.
 
Bradness said:
It appears I've started something here...

The point(s) that I would make are this: other than the newest 3.0 cams, the SVT cams were the biggest available at the time. The 3.0 cams were the same p/n's as 2.5's at least early on (exception was the LH intake cam with no H2O pump pulley). More displacement can handle more lift and/or duration w/out the drawbacks like lopey idle, running rich, etc. So the bigger SVT cams should work better in a 3.0 than the stock (automatic trans) cams but they make power higher up the RPM range - fine if your car is a stick.
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Better how? Just depends where you want the powerband. That old motor you put in snobs car that I got.... a DOG, it was full SVT spec'ed too. The motor I replaced it with? Full 3 liter pulled like a train (lower RPM ranges) - matched an SVT cammed car as well!

Second point: Cams and IM's are normally designed to work as a package.
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I agree.
Third point: The dyno doesn't lie. People here like to play with different combos and power to y'all. The rest of us benefit by seeing what works and what doesn't.
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I agree, though all combinations, motors, dyno's will be different.
Fourth point: Porting, when done properly, will always provide an improvement over a non ported cylinder head. I specifically asked about IM's, not ported heads. Unless "ported 3.0" really means "gasket matching" the split port LIM to the oval port cylinder head. Really, porting is reshaping and/or refinishing the ports from inlet to valve seat (intake) and valve seat to outlet (exhaust).
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Here we refer to 'gasket matched' (what you put in snobs red car) a 'ported 3 liter' - correct or not, it's just the terminology thats attached itself. You can read my previous posts on the aspect of hogging out the ports to match SVT bits to the oval port heads.
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Last (personal) point. I much prefer the look of the stock, nest o' snakes, cast UIM. As others have said, the plastic 3.0 IM doesn't look right. Plus you have to dick around with the rail and the EGR (does the throttle linkage work?). I've never had a problem with an IMRC box either. For the correct appearance I'm willing to give up some TQ/HP-but that's my preference. The 3.0 is still a big step up from a 2.5 and I'd do it again.
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I used to like the SVT intakes as well. I also can appreciate the cleanliness of the full 3 liter swaps. No dicking with the rail - pick up an NPG fuel block or use your brain and a corvette fuel filter (don't PM me for that info, you'll get it or you won't).

EGR? Ditch it (see earlier)

throttle linkage you can bolt up - use the 3 liter stuff and bore out the hole for the SVT throttle cable. the pull is different (50% pedal = 100% throttle).

Keep the IMRC plugged in until you get her tuned, and then just tune it out later.

There is literally NO fab work involved in a full 3 liter anymore. Anyone else think of anything that used to need fabrication that I didn't mention?
 
rac74 said:
Aside from splicing the injector harness, routing new vacuum lines, and the PCV, there is nothing of major difficulty...
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Very easy stuff, and to elaborate...

No splicing. I used split port injectors on mine, not ideal but it never went lean and it made good power.

Assuming you removed the EGR there are 3 vacuum lines to run, FPR, and the two body lines. You can scavenge the 3 -1 rubber manifold from the 2.5 and use 2 red lines to go to the body (This is from the passenger side of the 04+ taurus manifold). You can run the green line from the taurus set up from the rubber manifold through (over rear bank,under front back) the upper intake manifold to the FPR / fuel block.

PCV is the easiest part, assuming you were smart enough to use the 04+ valve covers (better PCV) it just bolts up! The only line you have to run is some vac hose from the front vc breather to the intake tract.

I suppose re-locating the coil pack is fabrication... It took me 10 minutes to cut a hole in the cowl for it.... Not too hard for someone tearing out a motor right :shrug:?
 
Pudmunkie said:
Very easy stuff, and to elaborate...

No splicing. I used split port injectors on mine, not ideal but it never went lean and it made good power.

Assuming you removed the EGR there are 3 vacuum lines to run, FPR, and the two body lines. You can scavenge the 3 -1 rubber manifold from the 2.5 and use 2 red lines to go to the body (This is from the passenger side of the 04+ taurus manifold). You can run the green line from the taurus set up from the rubber manifold through (over rear bank,under front back) the upper intake manifold to the FPR / fuel block.

PCV is the easiest part, assuming you were smart enough to use the 04+ valve covers (better PCV) it just bolts up! The only line you have to run is some vac hose from the front vc breather to the intake tract.

I suppose re-locating the coil pack is fabrication... It took me 10 minutes to cut a hole in the cowl for it.... Not too hard for someone tearing out a motor right :shrug:?
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Thank you! Not that difficult to do folks....
 
or you could use a 5/8 compression fitting and your brain to retain the EGR.

all of the vac line stuff is self explanitory when you have both engines out, really. if you can't figure that sort of stuff out you probably shouldn't be trying an engine swap. you have to rerun vac lines even to swap out old carb'd engines. this is something i thought most people could handle.

question: is this to say I'm going to have to plug in my old imrc box even on my full swap? because I left it in a plastic bin outside for a while and it rained and soaked it... so who knows if it even works right now. what happens when I leave it unplugged? just a cel?

also, on the injectors, I was planning on using the 3l injectors, but I had been wondering about the connections as the 2.5 injectors plugs looked narrower than the 3l's I've seen here. I have an SE, so what do i do? I'd really rather not hack up the wiring harness.

I was even planning on tapping the block for the knock sensor so I wouldn't have to tackle the wiring. old crusty hanesses are the source of grimlins.

oh, also, I'm going to use the 3.0 coil pack because the one from the 2.5 was bad in the first place. am I right thinking I can splice that in by just pairing the wires across the connector?
 
Apperantley you can't follow your own advice and drop it, I've got more experience on these motors than you; one day you'll realize it. You can keep the EGR if you want, but don't tell people its necessary, its not.

Find some SVT injectors, while I was maxing out my SVT injectors due to naturally aspirated Pudmunkie power, you won't be making enough power to need anything more than that.

If you leave the IMRC unplugged your car will run like a dog, if you leave it plugged in but disconnected (on a full swap) you'll still pull once the computer kicks up the timing for the secondaries.

knock sensor's over rated - use your ear. More than a few CDW chassis cars never had them.

Buy a new 2.5 coil pack.

Are you sure you're ready to do this swap? You're asking quite a few basic questions that should be eliminated in the preliminary research phase.
 
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