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Underdrive pulley info ?

pstrbrc

CEG'er
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
57
Location
Elkhart, Kansas
The 'Tour I'm working on spends most of its time on the highway, so I'm seriously considering a UDP. Will a UDP for ANY Zetec work? Since this isn't for racing (will probably become wifey's DD until I buy her a new car) I'm not looking for a radically smaller pulley. However, when I search for UDP's for Zetecs, most don't tell me the diameter, just assure me that theirs is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Anybody else here using a UDP? How did you go about shopping for one?
:shrug:
 
AFAIK, any UDP for the Zetec will work. eBay usually has a lot listed, but after a quick search didn't give to many listings. Most of the Zetec UDPs you'll find are 100mm, which works great. Any smaller UDP, you could run into problems (alternator not providing enough power, WP not circulating enough coolant, etc.)

If I had to choose the best bang for the buck mod on our Zetecs, its the UDP. You gain MPGs, faster reving through gears and you gain some HP(not very noticeable though.)

I have this one installed on mine: http://www.zxtuner.com/product.sc;j...4A00.qscstrfrnt04?categoryId=24&productId=129 But it says its back ordered.
 
because i have an ebay one that ill sell you for $10 plus shipping. :laugh: send me a PM if your interested.
 
Looks ok to me, but there might be a fitment issue with the belt. One of the guys here got the pulley with the included belt, but the belt didn't fit. You can easily pick up one at a local auto parts store and buy a belt thats 1.5" smaller than the stock one for $15.

Pick up strikers offer!
 
oh yeah, mine doesnt come with a belt though, unless you dont have AC:laugh:

belts are cheap though.
 
Looks ok to me, but there might be a fitment issue with the belt. One of the guys here got the pulley with the included belt, but the belt didn't fit. You can easily pick up one at a local auto parts store and buy a belt thats 1.5" smaller than the stock one for $15.

Pick up strikers offer!
cobra seems to have beat me to that. However, the problem with picking one up at "the local auto parts store" is that I live a hunnert miles away from anything resembling a real "auto parts store." :eek:
It's been a real you-know-what trying to find parts. Rock Auto has become my "local auto parts store".
 
cobra seems to have beat me to that. However, the problem with picking one up at "the local auto parts store" is that I live a hunnert miles away from anything resembling a real "auto parts store." :eek:
It's been a real you-know-what trying to find parts. Rock Auto has become my "local auto parts store".

Sorry:cool:

I suffer from the same problem. You'll find that CEG is the closest to perfect when it comes to stuff like this. Striker2 just sadly lost a Zetec to Probe Racing pistons about 7 months ago, so he's got plenty of knowledge, and quite a few parts. I've been looking for a cheap UDP for about a year, now, so I had to jump on it:laugh:
 
IIRC, someone makes a 80mm udp and requires you to get an alternator ODP and smaller belt. i'm looking at buying it sometime soon and trying it.
 
Lessee. Stock looks like it measures ~130mm so going to a 100mm means I'm dropping my belt speed to ~75% of what it was stock. Going down to 80mm drops belt speed to ~62%, so requiring a smaller alt pulley must mean that 62% is too slow for the alternator, so you're just slowing down the A/C and the P/S. OK, I'm with you so far, but under performance conditions you probably don't have your A/C on, so the only thing you're doing is lowering your P/S pump drag. And when you want your a/c, it's now only 62% effective, instead of 75% effective. Am I missing something?
 
Water pump?? The only thing in belt train that could do permanent damage, all other things would just lead to inconvenience. Overheating could toast your ride. There's another issue that I have never heard anyone who sells these parts address. Engine longevity. I don't know about the six, but the zetec damper is just that, a damper. It has the hub construction with rubber ring and outside iron ring. That part is made that way for a reason, just tell me how many millions Ford could have saved by merely making a single part instead of that assembly. It damps out harmonic vibration from the crank. I remember people taking this same idea to American V-8s only to watch as crankshaft breakage reared it's ugly head. Note that as those engines got more and more powerful, and revved higher and higher, that crankshaft dampers got BIGGER. The zetec is a four cylinder, the design of which lends itself even more to crank torsional vibrations. Note also that earlier low HP producing Ford fours used cranks that were not fully counterweighted, which allows for more of that type vibration. Many also had solid crank hubs with no rubber damper. Problems did not happen because engines made no power. A 100 HP 4 cyl. motor has a 25 HP "hit" everytime a cylinder goes off, how about a 200 HP engine? The crank will twist more from that increased power. Using cast iron for crank can help/hurt, cast iron absorbs some torsional twist but sacrifices itself in the long run doing so. Forged steel shaft stronger, but those things echo the vibrations up and down their length, that's why there for awhile all the Nascar boys were running cast cranks, the reduction in vibration was worth 20 HP, so the word was. As engine starts making more specific HP for its' size, those vibrations go up. Zetec motor makes more power per cubic inch and crank much closer to a fully counterweighted type. Now has damper too. I have personally seen people yank damper in favor of a small hub to increase power on big motors only to have the motor begin shelling out bearings or outright blow up. Now I'm not saying that's gonna happen on a small stock motor, but I do believe that there will be some kind of price to be paid. Maybe the engine will just wear out faster, I don't know. I love the basic idea, used to have underdrive pulley on my old V-8 AMX, but that one kept the damper, pulley bolted to the front of it. On those cars it was worth 20 HP at 7000 rpm, WATERPUMP ALONE. I also used the much bigger damper from a 390 on a 304, since motor going to 7500+ rpm. My point is this, the makers of those parts are absolutely quiet on this subject, at least I've never heard one guarantee that his part will not break your engine or wear it out faster.
 
I've looked pretty closely at the zetec pulley. It certainly has a damper in the hub, but it isn't a harmonic balancer as found in V-8s. In my opinion it does nothing for that "Crank whip" which you describe, but simply lessens noise and dampens the pulsations that are transferred via the belt to the accessories.

No disrespect to your opinion AMC, you are probably the most knowledgeable person on this forum, this is just my .02.
 
Amc,
Yep, that's the part I was curious about. Mcgarvey, it is a harmonic damper. Some american v-8's aren't internally balanced, and they require intentionally out-of-balance front pulley and flywheel. This is to cancel out primary imbalance. The Zetec crankshaft is primary balanced. But all engines also have secondary imbalances. These are harmonics. These harmonics can (and sometimes do) become so violent they can snap the crankshaft. (Check on BMW 6 cylinder history!) At the very least they can cause undo bearing wear. This is why harmonic dampers are are on engines. Not for passenger comfort.
Question is, where is the harmonic imbalance range on the zetec? I know it's at 5400-5600rpm for my AMC 6.
 
BTW, does anybody just sell oversized pulleys for the alternator and PS pump? I know that would increase rotational mass, but that would just hurt acceleration. I'm looking to lessen the hp drain at cruise, to improve highway economy.
 
Uh, the belt is a damper, making the damped ring redundant. Belt dampens vibrations from and to accessories, it has give, just watch a tensioner for proof. In fact the tensioner itself is a damper of sorts as it absorbs force. On really big fat block Chevy (700+ inch) we went to belt camshaft drive instead of chain to closer control cam timing events. Crankshaft windup/springback played hell with chain/cam, belt also stopped chordal vibrations from individual chain links rocking and curving into place on sprocket. Sprocket goes through a series of mini slowdowns/speedups as chain changes from straight direction to a curve. That action plays hell on link pins at 1500+ (3 stage nitrous!) horsepower. So, getting back to it, why the damper ring again, especially under a belt assembly which damps on its' own?? 2 liter motor would not need much metal in a damper ring, thinking that's a cast iron shaft there. There are dampers for both internal balance and external balance engines. External balance usually used on bigger engines. Saves room in crankcase, ala 400 smallblock vs. 350. Most imbalance in crank shows effect toward the ends anyway, as vibrations work their way out. That's why non-fully counterweighted crank has the biggest weights usually toward the ends. External balanced damper generally requires offset balanced flywheel to match. Rubber damper usually intended to match a certain frequency range, only problem with that is that an engine can have more than one range of vibration in it. Witness some of the really extravagant (expensive) harmonic balancers made nowadays. My Dad involved with a guy with '64 Chevy II 2 speed Powerglide automatic, 450 inch SMALL block, that had big trouble with knocking bearings out. Tossed stock big damper for custom made BIGGER, problems went away. Car ran 9.70s @ 140, 1/4 mile. And no, I ain't always right, sometimes I can be really full of crap......................again, my initial point was that UDP makers are silent on the subject of engine longevity with that part. I was thinking out loud.
 
I know mine requires no puller to remove original, it just slips off once center bolt removed. Biggest trouble will be finding the correct shorter belt to keep tensioner with some belt stretch room. I consider it easy, but I work on cars all the time.
 
Getting the bolt off is the hardest part without an impact wrench. After the bolt is off, installation is as easy as blinking.
 
Use a breakover bar and socket and put in position to load against something stout. Whirl starter for just a sec after killing the coil power (you don't want engine to start) and it will come loose by power of engine cranking over. That's on a zetec, I don't know which way the six rotates.
 
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