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**STANCE/FITMENT THREAD** Have Questions About Wheel Fitment and Adjustable Suspension? Ask Here!

C

cobrawannabe

Addicted CEG'er
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Messages
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Location
Colchester, CT
BEFORE WE BEGIN...
I am asking the community to keep things civil in here. If you do not like this style of vehicular modification, keep your mouth shut. This thread is for those of us who do. This thread is intended to help CEGers find the perfect balance of form and function in a manner we all like. Do not come in here only to bash the "hellamadflushyodiggitydawg" style. No, Contours are not VWs, and we do not wish they were; we just like the style.

Now that that's out of the way, let's get down to business.

I have noticed an influx of members from CEG joining FocalJet. This could be due to many reasons, but I have noticed that a number of us join to post in [FJ]'s suspension section. I'm sure many of you have noticed the wealth of knowledge on the site regarding wheel offset, fitment, and suspension adjustment in accordance to them. This thread is designed to make your life easier in the search for this information.

If you have any questions regarding this topic, feel free to ask. If I can't answer, I'm sure others will fill in. Let's use this thread to work off of each other's knowledge, rather than bicker about things we all know.

Basic Rumors Dispelled:
There are a lot of popular beliefs on this site (just like any forum) that are taken as absolute truths which may or may not be so true in every case. Let's take a look at them and discuss why this may be.

Wheel Spacers are Not a Death Sentence
While they may not be ideal, wheel spacers are an easy, safe way to flush a set of wheels which need that extra outward push. The general belief here is that a wheel spacer of almost any size will destroy the wheel bearings in a Contour. This is simply not true. While they are not the toughest bearing on the planet, CDW27 wheel bearings are not made of glass and hammers; heck, all four of mine went 165K without being replaced! A small spacer will not ruin them. Let's look at the actual effect of a wheel spacer.

First, we must compare the offset of two popular wheel choices for Contours:

1. Focus SVT 5-spoke
Size: 17x7
Offset: 49mm
1007S177.jpg


2. OZ Ultraleggera
Size: 17x7
Offset: 42mm
oz_ultraleggera_s_ci3_l.jpg


There is a difference in offset between the two wheels of 7mm. This is normally not even a consideration when purchasing the OZs because, well, TireRack says they fit. This is not in any way an incorrect assumption.
Now, when a Contour driver decides, instead, to go with the Focus wheel; they notice quite a bit of space between the fender lip and wheel face. This, in the scene, is called "sunk", since the wheels appear to be sunk into the fender. The common solution would be to add a 5 or 10mm spacer behind the FSVT wheels to get rid of that gap, and "flush them out". This is where a lot of us pause, and think of the extra stress the spacers will put on our wheel bearings. What many of us do not realize is that the spacers have the VERY SAME effect on bearing leverage as a wheel of lower offset. This principle is good to live by, as long as you don't go nuts with spacers. Remember, the thicker your spacers are, the longer your studs need to be. This is not so much the case with lower offset wheels, as the lug seat can just be drilled deeper into the face of the wheel, moving the pressure point farther inward.

I need to go to class soon, so I will stop here, for now. Check for additions later on.
 
I have 2 questions about suspension, number 1 how well will ground controls match with bat struts? number 2 what are the differences in height of drop between cougar and contour h&r springs?
 
I'm pretty sure that the Cougar and Contour springs are basically the same drop. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as the GC with the BAT struts, I'm sure it will handle it just fine, but not as much as say, Koni Yellows would be. Also, someone may correct me if I'm wrong. I'm used to seeing GCs on Konis.

As far as stancing on the Contour, for static drops, we are limited to either the KSport Kontrol Pro, KSport RR, or the D2 coilovers. Of course, there is always the option of going air suspension, but I have absolutely no knowledge of any of that. The Kontrol Pro and D2s are, in essence, the same. They are just different in color, and should be had for about the same price. The KSport RR allows you to choose your own spring rate, and thus are a little bit more expensive. As far as camber adjustment goes, there is none when it comes to these coilover kits, as they re-use the OEM top mounts (No pillow-ball top mounts on the coilovers). For camber adjustment, you will need to purchase a seperate camber plate kit. But from previous experience, as well as other testimonials, it is said that running without the plates are much better. I know that on my camber kit with stock springs, the plate snapped off the top of my Koni on the adjustment valve, blowing the strut out.

When choosing a wider rim setup, it's best to take into consideration how wide of a rim you are looking to put on, how low you are wanting to go, what tire size to apply to the rim, and clearance on both outside on the fender line, and inside on your shock body. In basics, to run wider rims of let's say, a 17x9 rim, you will need a lower offset to push the rim out from hitting the shock body. But with that, you will also have to consider the possibility of having clearance issues with your fender. This is where ride height and tire size comes into play. The lower you want to go with a wider rim, the need of having to roll and pull your fenders will increase to clear either your tire or rim, or you will have to find a narrower tire to "tuck" inside the fender, depending on how you are wanting to stance your car.
 
Mikey, one thing: The Contour H&Rs will provide more drop than Cougar springs when dealing with a Contour. The Cougar is 150-250 lbs heavier than the Contour, so the rates are a bit higher.
 
Okay, I knew there was something a tad different, but I couldn't remember what it was. It's been a while since I paid attention to lowering springs. lol
 
yah I was afraid of that, I got a buddy who has some cougar h&r springs for sale but it looks like they only give a 1.3 inch drop compared to the 1.75/1.25 for the contour like I wanted.
 
I am going to attempt a flush setup on the CSVT using a static setup since bags are for groceries. :P I would think the GC setup would work just as well as a true coilover. Camber adjustment for the front and rear would help extremely, whether they be camber plates or bolts. As several people have had problems with the plates, bolts would help a good amount. Anyone want to fab one of these up? :cool:

Ive always had an issue with understanding offsets on different widths of rims and I always have to do research on it when I feel like I should know. So a good question here which can help many:
What's the difference in offset on different width wheels (ie: +35 Offset on 7", 8" or 9" rims)?
 
Aaron88 said:
Just wanted to clarify, this is actually the OZ Ultraleggera wheel, not Superleggera.

IIRC Ultraleggera's are available from tirerack in a 4x108 bolt pattern...Superleggera's are discontinued.
Click to expand...
Bah! Brain fart. Thanks.
qbcsvt said:
I am going to attempt a flush setup on the CSVT using a static setup since bags are for groceries. :P I would think the GC setup would work just as well as a true coilover. Camber adjustment for the front and rear would help extremely, whether they be camber plates or bolts. As several people have had problems with the plates, bolts would help a good amount. Anyone want to fab one of these up? :cool:

Ive always had an issue with understanding offsets on different widths of rims and I always have to do research on it when I feel like I should know. So a good question here which can help many:
What's the difference in offset on different width wheels (ie: +35 Offset on 7", 8" or 9" rims)?
Click to expand...

Offset is a measurement of the wheel's hubface in relation to the centerline of the barrel. Backspacing is the measurement of the wheel's hubface in relation to the inner edge of the wheel. To work with the two numbers in relation to each other, we need to first determine how to calculate backspacing.

Backspacing = half-width - offset... If the offset is negative, then we simply add that number to the half-width.

Here's an example:

Focus SVT 5-spoke:
17x7 +49

Offset(o): +49
Width(w): 178mm (7")
Halfwidth(hw): 89mm (3.5")
Backspace(bs)= 89+49=138mm (5.45")

What's the difference between positive and negative offset?
Positive offset is an offset that puts the hubface of the wheel outboard of the centerline. Negative offset puts the hubface inboard of the centerline.

Comparing Offset on Different Width Wheels
Since offset in relation to width is measured in accordance with half width, use this basic rule: One inch of width = 12mm of offset change. If the offset is positive, adding 12mm to a 1 inch wider wheel will keep the backspacing the same.

Back to our basic example-
Focus SVT 5-spoke:
17x7, et49 (et just means offset.)

Now, if I were to make the wheel one inch wider toward the inside of the hubface (no real choice with this particular wheel), thsi is how I would calculate what the new offset would need to be to keep the wheel's centerline in the same place.

First Step: Determine the difference in width in millimeters. Since I am going 1 inch wider, my difference will be 24mm
Second Step: Determine the change in hw by dividing that number by two. 24 / 2 = 12
Third Step: Subtract that value from the old offset. 49 - 12 = 37. My new offset in accordance to the original width will be +37, which means that before the wheel is widened, I will add 12mm to the center of the wheel, or run a 12mm spacer once the wheel is widened.

As far as fab goes, check out my sig :)
 
rexxdoggy said:
As far as camber adjustment goes, there is none when it comes to these coilover kits, as they re-use the OEM top mounts (No pillow-ball top mounts on the coilovers). For camber adjustment, you will need to purchase a seperate camber plate kit. But from previous experience, as well as other testimonials, it is said that running without the plates are much better. I know that on my camber kit with stock springs, the plate snapped off the top of my Koni on the adjustment valve, blowing the strut out.
Click to expand...

This is a very timely thread for me. I'm about to finally install my D2's and am wondering if I should use my camber kit or not. My car is already pretty low and I have no issues with abnormal tire wear. I'm running stock E0's and 205/55 Goodrich g-Force Sport tires which seem to be more durable though less grippy than the KDW stock tire. The suspension is shot though and needs to be replaced. I probably wouldn't have it any lower than it is now so theoretically I could probably do without the camber adjustment plates. Does that sound like a correct assessment? I just thought it would be convenient to have some additional options in adjustment besides tow in/out. I did purchase the heavier duty plate that was in a group buy here years ago as then the problem seemed to be that the camber plate would get broken by the strut shaft.
Karl

I just noticed in another thread that the strut breakage seems to be on Konis only so maybe I'll be okay if I decide to use them with the D2s.
 
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I can't for sure say of any mishaps with the coilovers and the camber plates. I know a few have ran them with successful results and no damage like they have done to the Konis.

On a side note, 98SVTC, what's funny is that on my local car forum here, my SN is 99SVTC lol
 
LauraSVT had been running a camber kit for a long time on stock suspension with no problems. Once you drop it with stiffer springs is when you have issues. Logically, the stiffer the spring, the more likely it will break. I'd like for someone with camber kit experience to chime in though with the suspension setup they ran it on...
 
One thing about running spacers is making sure you have enough thread engagement to run the spacer you want. The minimum engagement of a lug nut should be six full turns with a spacer. IMO the wheel studs on the Contour seem pretty short... I was thinking like the stock studs on the Cobra were somewhat longer but can't say for certain. I know the maximum spacer size you can run on my Cobra is 1/4", or you can possibly go 3/8" if you have extended reach lug nuts. I'd say on the Contour about 1/8" is all I'd feel comfortable going... you might be able to do 1/4".

I've ran 1/2" spacers on the rear of my Cobra for several years now... it has no effect on a bearings lifespan due to spacing the wheel out. My car still has the IRS so there are hub bearings for it in the rear ;)



Shannon
 
I have been running a 1/4" (~6mm?) consistantly now for a few years on stock studs. I have also heard, in regard to thread engagement in general is, the nut should thread no less then the width of the stud. If the stud i 12mm then it should thread on 12mm.

I like to keep my lugs a little extra tight.


In regards to the GC and Bat question: Yes, physically the two will work. However I dont recommend it. GC is a moderate to stiff setup. the problem is the rebound will be too harsh for a bat strut and the Bat will not dampen the spring. Then the strut will wear prematurely and fail.

With a koni, it is adjustable and you can make it as stiff as needed. As the koni yellow is adjusted the the strut rod is hard to pull out, which is the dampening force.

Also, if some is going for a flush look where rim/tire rides under the wheel lip, you will need the stiffs ride you can get or else you run the risk of bouncing the body off the wheel/tire.

Blu_fuz, i believe snapped the top of the koni off his camber kit. lowered all the way im only out of spec on one side by on a few 10ths.

I am also on focaljet and frequent the fitment threads and classifieds.
 
rexxdoggy said:
I had stock springs on my Koni yellows and they still snapped.
Click to expand...

The Konis snap with the camber kits because of the hollow strut shaft needed for the adjustment rod. since the D2s and Ksports also have a hollow shaft I would be extremely leery of running the camber kits on them.

btw, I have snapped 2 koni struts with the camber kit and GCs. took off the camber kit and never looked back.
 
TourEnvy said:
I have been running a 1/4" (~6mm?) consistantly now for a few years on stock studs. I have also heard, in regard to thread engagement in general is, the nut should thread no less then the width of the stud. If the stud i 12mm then it should thread on 12mm.

I like to keep my lugs a little extra tight.


In regards to the GC and Bat question: Yes, physically the two will work. However I dont recommend it. GC is a moderate to stiff setup. the problem is the rebound will be too harsh for a bat strut and the Bat will not dampen the spring. Then the strut will wear prematurely and fail.

With a koni, it is adjustable and you can make it as stiff as needed. As the koni yellow is adjusted the the strut rod is hard to pull out, which is the dampening force.

Also, if some is going for a flush look where rim/tire rides under the wheel lip, you will need the stiffs ride you can get or else you run the risk of bouncing the body off the wheel/tire.

Blu_fuz, i believe snapped the top of the koni off his camber kit. lowered all the way im only out of spec on one side by on a few 10ths.

I am also on focaljet and frequent the fitment threads and classifieds.
Click to expand...


hmm never really thought about that, but what if once where to only keep the drop at a max of 1 and a half inches then do you think they would work ok together?
 
I really have no idea, if it helps I run the standard GC springs and my adjustables at 1/2 stiffness. This is on a DD. I have not seen dyno results from either strut so I dont know at what setting the the koni's compare to the bat struts.
 
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