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Speeding ticket - I want to fight it but how far do I push it?

B

ButtonPuncher

Veteran CEG'er
Joined
Aug 15, 2002
Messages
536
Location
Southeast WI
On the 7th I got into an accident in a school zone. It is a bad area with lots of people doing stupid things. I always slow down but probably not as much as I should. On the accident report I guessed and said that I was doing 30mph. The officer slapped my with a 5mph over ticket for $97 and 3 points (yikes!) off my license.

I have a few problems with this.

There isn't any posting saying that the speed limits drops to 25mph.
There is only a school zone sign.
I was guessing as to my speed, I wasn't clocked in any way.
I feel that 3 points is EXTREME. That is 1/4 of the points available before loosing my license.
My car was wrecked in the accident. Isn't that penalty enough?

Here's what state law says:
(4) FIXED LIMITS. In addition to complying with the speed
restrictions imposed by subs. (2) and (3), no person shall drive a
vehicle at a speed in excess of the following limits unless different
limits are indicated by official traffic signs:
(a) Fifteen miles per hour when passing a schoolhouse at those
times when children are going to or from school or are playing
within the sidewalk area at or about the school.
(b) Fifteen miles per hour when passing an intersection or
other location properly marked with a “school crossing” sign of
a type approved by the department when any of the following conditions
exists:
1. Any child is present.
2. A school crossing guard is within a crosswalk at the intersection
or the other location or, if no crosswalk exists, is in the
roadway at the intersection or the other location.
3. A school crossing guard is placing in or removing from the
roadway at or near the intersection or the other location a temporary
sign or device that guides, warns, or regulates traffic.

Please keep in mind that it was 6 degrees outside when this all happened. There were no children present. Only vehicles. There aren't any sidewalks either. Theoretically I should have been able to drive 35mph (the posted speed limit).

This all could backfire in my face. Because the speed limit wasn't posted, the judge could say that it was only 15mph and nail me with a huge fine and take off a ton of points.

Right now I'm trying to decide if I should:
1-Just pay the ticket and take the $97 and 3 point hit and watch my insurance skyrocket.
2-Go to court, plead guilty and request a reduced fine and reduced points
3-Go to court, plead not guilty and fight it all.


BP
 
Ask a lawyer. Most likely they will tell you to take the ticket. You can always pleed your case, most of the time the DA will drop it to a lesser charge.
 
Because you managed to pass your drivers test, your supposed to know about the speed limit change that comes with a school zone (especially when you know there are signs)

Sounds like your just trying to make excuses.

Just bite the bullet.
 
(1) The police wrote you for 20 mph. See item 4a from state law. It appears from 4a that the school zone was 15 mph,
(2) How did the police determine your speed during the accident? If you are going to fight it, an attorney helps but it is expensive. (An accident below 20 mph usually does not "wreck" a vehicle).
(3) Some states allow a "Guilty with a prayer for judgement" if you have not used something like that in the previous three years. This is similar to your reduced fine option. The fine is the same, with an extra administrative fee (maybe $50) but it does not have the points tacked on (so, there is no increase in insurance premiums). Some states allow internet driving school (if this plea is used)-"Florida es Numero Uno:cool:".

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Ps. If it were me, I would go with pleading a reduced citation, if possible. I would not go with just paying and watching the insurance premiums skyrocket. If you do go with an attorney, they will probably get it reduced to a non-moving violation type citation, but they might end up costing more than a three year increase in premiums.
 
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Yeah, the more i think about it, the more it could really blow up in my face.

I'm just going to go and see if I can get the fine/points reduced.

BTW, when a car is only worth $1200 tops, bending the frame, setting off both airbags, cracking the windshield, destroying the bumper, cracking the radiator, and folding the hood... It's considered wrecked by the insurance co. :blackeye:




BP
 
In posts like yours, it might help if we had some idea where you lived. It appears, however, that you do not want anyone to know what state you live in - hence - "Location: In between turbo and super land."

Without knowing your state, all attemptes to help you will be entirely speculative and generally worthless.
 
ButtonPuncher said:
There were no children present. Only vehicles. There aren't any sidewalks either. Theoretically I should have been able to drive 35mph (the posted speed limit).




BP
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try and argue that, but dont take it to trial. that would be hell. in other words say why you dont think you should have gotten a ticket and if they dont care just take the ticket. im lucky i work for a attory. he got me out of one but there was no proff that i was speeding. ( one car + tree)
 
We have 'ticket clinic'. You pay them $150 or so & they make it go away - guaranteed.

Here in Florida we also have the option to go to driving school to get a 15% reduced penalty, no insurance hike (sometimes dependant on the insurer), and no points. Available once every 12 months, driving school costs about $35. Your options should be listed on the citation.
 
I wouldn't try it, but to each their own. Judges are going to be particularly harsh on school zone violators, especially if they're a parent of a young child, and especially if they're a woman.

The fact that you not only admit to speeding in the school zone (and you are expected what the school zone limits are in your state) but managed to get into a major accident in one doesn't bode well for you at all.

How do you expect a judge to believe you when you say that there were no children around when you couldn't even see the very large object right in front of you that you ran into?

I'd say you got off pretty damn lightly with only a $97 fine when you cause a a major, speed-related accident inside of a school zone. 5mph over would have got you a ticket for almost three times that much here in Texas That could have just as easily, maybe even more easily considering the location, been a kid that you hit rather than a car.

The cop let you off easy when he let you go with a 5mph over rather than a 15mph over, fully double the limit. 15mph over in a school zone and causing an accident would probably have net you a reckless driving charge and immediate loss of your license rather than just "1/4 of the way there" (are you planning on needing that other 3/4 or what?).
 
Every school zone I encountered is 15 mph and it is common knowledge that airbags deploy in 25+ mph accidents. On top of it, most judges will not be lenient to speeding in school zones so I would just suck it up and just pay the ticket.
 
I feel for you, got into a not so dis-similar crash a couple weeks ago. (slower, though.)

Imo your best option for fighting it is to testify that you are not licesenced, trained, certified (etc.) at gauging a vehicles rate of speed. This coupled with the "fact" (doesn't matter whether you were, or weren't, they can't prove it.) you weren't looking at your speedometer (careless driving is a possible derivative from this, but at least in jersey thats a 2 pt compared to a 3pt'er)

only way they can proove you were going over the limit is by physical analysis of the crash. (airbags, skid mark length, etc.) To counter airbag arguements, do your best to find examples when airbags deployed that were at a far slower speed, ideally for contours. Ditto w/ the type of dmg you received.

Basically, walk into court prepared to defend yourself. (make sure to include a nice big folder full of papers, appearence matters too!) in the hopes of getting a good plea bargain.

also file a motion for discovery, so you can see exactly what the police have on you. (ie, if the officer didn't note down the dmg, any physical measurements, etc. that goes in your favor.)
 
catfish said:
Imo your best option for fighting it is to testify that you are not licesenced, trained, certified (etc.) at gauging a vehicles rate of speed. This coupled with the "fact" (doesn't matter whether you were, or weren't, they can't prove it.) you weren't looking at your speedometer (careless driving is a possible derivative from this, but at least in jersey thats a 2 pt compared to a 3pt'er)
Click to expand...

Soo... the classic "I'm a retard" defense? ;)

If you came into my courtroom and claimed that you were not qualified to gauge how fast you were travelling and openly admit to carelessly driving your car in a school zone nonetheless, you'd be walking out of my courtroom without a license for damn sure.
 
When I got my ticket a year ago, I plead not guilty. At the meeting with the judge and DA, they cut the fine in half. I didn't even have to say anything, they just asked if I would plead guilty to those charges. I would say plead not guilty and at least see what they say, they may reduce it to a non-moving violation.

My ticket was for 79 in a 55 on the expressway, which is a 6-point violation. They reduced it to 65 in a 55 which is a 3-point violation. I was pretty happy about this... I think the fine was like $145 or something like that... Expensive but my insurance didn't go up any.
 
How did you get fined? I thought the other person cut you off and you veered out of the way to avoid a t-bone (injuring driver) into a head-on with that car.
 
Just Do what I do. If you're like me and you can't afford anymore speeding tickets if you do get one, then just ask to pay double to keep it from going on your record. Sounds worse, but in the long run that ticket wont be on your record for 3 more years costing you alot more than paying double to begin with....
 
SVTPHAT said:
Just Do what I do. If you're like me and you can't afford anymore speeding tickets if you do get one, then just ask to pay double to keep it from going on your record. Sounds worse, but in the long run that ticket wont be on your record for 3 more years costing you alot more than paying double to begin with....
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Or just do what I do and learn to freakin' drive! I can't imagine getting that close to losing my license due to poor driving habits. You are responsible for every other motorist on the road's safety, as they are also responsible for yours.

And the OP should have known that speed limits are reduced in school zones WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

Sorry about your accident, though.
 
sigma said:
Soo... the classic "I'm a retard" defense? ;)

If you came into my courtroom and claimed that you were not qualified to gauge how fast you were travelling and openly admit to carelessly driving your car in a school zone nonetheless, you'd be walking out of my courtroom without a license for damn sure.
Click to expand...

perhaps, but a "guess" from an unqualified person is by no means concrete enough to render him guilty on a speeding charge without some other evidence. (that it was his guess is irrelevant to this point, albeit it was dumb of him to "guess" anything more than 2-3 over the limit.)

also the court would need to prove that there were children and/or a crossing guard for the reduced limits to even be applicable. (if it was after/before school hours that would help his case alot, also.)
 
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