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Rotors bad after one year?

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New CEG'er
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
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27
I replaced my pads and rotors about a year ago (and 15,000 miles), and they vibrate badly again now when I brake from anything over 50mph. I can feel it shudder without braking as well on the highway. Wheels are balanced 100%, so it must be from rotor imbalance. The rotors that I bought were the Duralast ones from Autozone, so do you guys think it's because they aren't good quality? My buddy tells me I should order the Brembo ones on tirerack for $46/piece.

Can anyone comment on this issue?

Thanks!
 
Before you just blindly replace the rotors, there are a couple other things that could be causing it, and would lead to the new rotors having the same issue before long anyway.

First, the rotors could be worn unevenly from inside to outside causing a variation in thickness. (This is what people typically call "warped" rotors, but they aren't actually warped) This is often caused by loose or bad wheel bearings. Check your wheel bearings for play (some guys here call it the "o'clock test" try a search on that if you don't know how to check bearings). Take care of the bearings if they are bad, and have your rotors turned, but be sure to use a shop that cuts both faces of the rotor at the same time; this greatly improves the ability for the rotor faces to actually be parallel to each other. If they can't turn them and still maintain min. thickness, you'll need to replace the rotors anyway.

Next potential item is your control arm bushings. Bad control arm bushings in the front, particularly the one on the rear leg of the control arm can result in a front end shudder, which will be noticably worse under braking. You don't say what year your car is, but you can search under control arm replacement here to get some details as to what you will need to do.

One thing that will help diagnose this is if you describe how you feel the shudder. Do you feel the brake pedal "pulsing" while braking? Do you feel the shudder in the steering wheel only? In the floor or seat only? Or in both the steering wheel and the floor?
 
Same thing happened to my wife's mystique with the OEM and bendix rotors. The warping is usually uneven pad wear around the rotor. If you see "ghosting" of the pad on the rotor that is what is causing your shudder. If you turn the rotors down it might fix it for a little while. What finally fixed it on the mystique was upgrading to the SVT sized rotors and buying the ceramic bendix pads. The shuddering didn't come back. The driving conditions the car saw were traffic lights with 50 mph between them.
Check out this link it might help explain it. http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml#
 
Bad inner/outer tie rod ends can cause very similar problem to the bad control arm bushing problem mentioned.
 
Hey thanks for the replies guys. The shuddering can be felt by both the steering wheel and the pedal, and to be honest, it's more from the pedal. When the car is just shuddering at about 70mph, the feel is from my fat bottom more so than the steering wheel, but like I said, the wheels are perfectly balanced. I watched them do it at the tire store.

Thanks again,
 
Don't bother turning your rotors. At the price of a new OEM rotor compared to machining, it's not worth it!. When you remove material to fix a runout problem, you are reducing the heat absorbtion capacity. Guess what, you will back to a runnout problem again. Try a differenet brnf like bendix etc..
 
OEM rotors are $60 and over each plus shipping and/or sales tax
machining a rotor is $10 no tax
multiply times 4 and big price difference
even cheapest aftermarket rotors are $25 so still a significant diff

Duralast rotors have a 2 year warranty by Autozone. Worth a try to remove and return there. If they don't give a free replacement then off for machining (turning).

Inspect your pads before assembly also.
 
but like I said, the wheels are perfectly balanced. I watched them do it at the tire store.

You're probably right but just because you watched them doesnt mean that a weight hasnt shifted, fallen off or they simply said good enough and put it back on the car.
 
Yeah $20 plus soon after the price of buying replacement. As I said it's not worth it! Remove the material and you will be back with the same problem. So in the long run it will cost more! The set he has could have been heat treated incorrectly or the materail is in adequate! Why put a bandaide on a something that won't heal!
 
Swap the rotors out under the warranty replacement, swap the brake pads and see what happens after they're bedded in properly. A lot of people skip that step and complain later down the road.
 
Hey thanks for the replies guys. The shuddering can be felt by both the steering wheel and the pedal, and to be honest, it's more from the pedal. When the car is just shuddering at about 70mph, the feel is from my fat bottom more so than the steering wheel, but like I said, the wheels are perfectly balanced. I watched them do it at the tire store.

Thanks again,

Definately check your wheel bearings then. Given your symptoms, that's the first place I'd look. But, I'd also say your control arm bushings are probably about due for replacement too if you are feeling it in the steering wheel as well.

If you replace the rotors without fixing the root cause you will end up back in the same position pretty quickly.

Don't bother turning your rotors. At the price of a new OEM rotor compared to machining, it's not worth it!. When you remove material to fix a runout problem, you are reducing the heat absorbtion capacity. Guess what, you will back to a runnout problem again. Try a differenet brnf like bendix etc..

Guess what? The original problem isn't heat related, so the small decrease in thermal capacity from turning the rotor won't have any discernable affect whatsoever.

I'd put money on it, that the original problem is excess play in one or both of his front wheel bearings which leads to uneven wear in the rotors when OFF the brake because the "wobble" in the wheel bearings allows either face of the rotor to just kiss its respective brake pad, alternating back and forth as the rotor spins. The worst wear in this scenario will occur during highway driving when not touching the brakes at all. The resulting variation in rotor thickness causes the pulsing felt in the pedal as the pads follow the shape, back and forth. The shudder in the steering wheel and in the floor can come through the movement of the whole wheel because of the loose bearing, and it can come through a bad point 4 bushing (point 4 is the rear leg of the front control arm) as the entire corner is allowed to move under braking, or even while cruising.

Again, let me re-iterate to the original poster, check your front wheel bearings and replace one or both as necessary. Also check your front control arm bushings for signs of play, or being soft. Then, once you know that is squared away, either replace or turn your rotors at your discretion. Personally, if the rotors don't look terrible, and the thinnest spots aren't close to the min thickness, I'd just have them turned. Even new rotors aren't always as true as they should be, I've had to have many brand new rotors turned becuase the faces weren't parallel to each other.
 
Definately check your wheel bearings then. Given your symptoms, that's the first place I'd look. But, I'd also say your control arm bushings are probably about due for replacement too if you are feeling it in the steering wheel as well.

If you replace the rotors without fixing the root cause you will end up back in the same position pretty quickly.



Guess what? The original problem isn't heat related, so the small decrease in thermal capacity from turning the rotor won't have any discernable affect whatsoever.

I'd put money on it, that the original problem is excess play in one or both of his front wheel bearings which leads to uneven wear in the rotors when OFF the brake because the "wobble" in the wheel bearings allows either face of the rotor to just kiss its respective brake pad, alternating back and forth as the rotor spins. The worst wear in this scenario will occur during highway driving when not touching the brakes at all. The resulting variation in rotor thickness causes the pulsing felt in the pedal as the pads follow the shape, back and forth. The shudder in the steering wheel and in the floor can come through the movement of the whole wheel because of the loose bearing, and it can come through a bad point 4 bushing (point 4 is the rear leg of the front control arm) as the entire corner is allowed to move under braking, or even while cruising.

Again, let me re-iterate to the original poster, check your front wheel bearings and replace one or both as necessary. Also check your front control arm bushings for signs of play, or being soft. Then, once you know that is squared away, either replace or turn your rotors at your discretion. Personally, if the rotors don't look terrible, and the thinnest spots aren't close to the min thickness, I'd just have them turned. Even new rotors aren't always as true as they should be, I've had to have many brand new rotors turned becuase the faces weren't parallel to each other.
Thanks a lot for the advice. I heard that wheel bearings on these cars are expensive to change?
 
No more than any other front wheel drive car where the hub and bearing are pressed together. You're probably looking at $40-50 for the bearing and another $25 to have a shop use their press to take it apart, press the old bearing out and press the new one in. Of course thats if you know a shop that does work on the side and lets you supply the part. And thats with you pulling the hub off an taking it to them. If they do all the work it may cost you a lot more.
 
A note on the wheel bearings, you may want to check w/ a member here named Stazi about where to source the bearings. IIRC, SKF was the OEM supplier during production, but the supplier was changed to a cheaper company after production stopped to save some money in service. But the bearings from the cheaper company aren't quite as good. (I had one go bad pretty quickly, but Stazi got me some of the original SKF bearings and they have been very good) I'll send him a PM and see if he'll throw his $0.02 of bearing knowledge in this thread . . .
 
Can't see how you can say runnout is not caused by heat. I will tell you from expierence that if the rotors are not tempered correctly to begin with that when hot and then get queched as going through a puddle they will have runnout. So to say that runout is not due to heat, totally false! From racing expierence you would never turn a rotor due the loss of heat sinking! Years ago turning was an accepted practice not so much anymore! hy because they are much cheaper now to replace, and the best way to do it is on the car. Which a lot of shops don't have the on car klathe setup. Even though some still turn rotors, if the original problem still exisits,as in tempering, it will come back!
 
Can't see how you can say runnout is not caused by heat. I will tell you from expierence that if the rotors are not tempered correctly to begin with that when hot and then get queched as going through a puddle they will have runnout. So to say that runout is not due to heat, totally false! From racing expierence you would never turn a rotor due the loss of heat sinking! Years ago turning was an accepted practice not so much anymore! hy because they are much cheaper now to replace, and the best way to do it is on the car. Which a lot of shops don't have the on car klathe setup. Even though some still turn rotors, if the original problem still exisits,as in tempering, it will come back!


Geez, where do I start. First, any tempering is completely overridden when the rotor is heated very high and quenched. And would be re-tempered anyway the next time the rotor was heated that high and allowed to cool slowly. Second, let's pretend your right, and somehow heat allowed the rotor to "warp" and generate some pure runout as you describe, this would NOT cause the pedal to pulse, as the distance between the pads would remain constant and NOT result in the pedal shudder described by the original poster. Pure runout in rotors, is rarely noticable, it is when the runout of the front and back faces are different when the problems arise. This resulting thickness variation is caused by one of two things, uneven wear of the rotor, and two uneven deposition of pad material on the surface. Occasionally, uneven pad material deposition or uneven rotor wear can be caused by local hotspotting of the rotor face leading to a hardened area that wears differently than the rest of the rotor, but its still wear, and definately NOT distortion due to heat as you describe. This runout/distortion due to heat, often called warped rotors is extremely rare, and very difficult to make happen. So much so that its nearly a modern myth, despite many mechanics swearing by that diagnosis out of ignorance. The problem is, the equipment required to measure it properly and prove what really happened, is so expensive, only specialized brake testing companies and OEMs have it, so it never gets debunked in public circles. I have personally spent many many hours in my professional career using such equipment, and reviewing the resulting data.

You are right, that people turn rotors less often these days, largely becuase new rotors are cheaper, not because there is anything wrong with a turned rotor. Turning a rotor removes no more material than normal wear does; the OEM min. thickness specification very easily and clearly sees to that.
And who said anything about turning a race rotor? The OP can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he's not doing any competitive racing in this particular car. From MY racing experience, I've never had a reason to turn a rotor, despite the fact the race rotors I've used were FAR more prone to the high heat and quenching scenario you described above. My race rotors typcally wear out before needing anyhting like being turned, besides, they are generally slotted, and I wouldn't bother turning a slotted rotor as the risk of breaking the cutting head is pretty high.
The bottom line is, you've got your metallurgy wrong, and you're applying an old assumption to symptoms you've seen simply because other people do too.
 
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