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P0305 - Cylinder 5 Misfire

J

JesusFreak

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
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Changed the plugs in the car, ran fine, then all of a sudden, white smoke in big amounts coming from front bank. CEL code says cylinder 5 misfire, took the plug out, fouled. Changed plug, ran fine, and then this morning, same thing! Really at a loss... what could cause a misfire on cylinder 5 with white smoke bellowing from the exhaust?

Mechanic ruled out head gasket which we thought it was before...

any help would be appreciated!
EDIT: Posted wrong code! :troutslap:
 
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HolyRollerzC3 said:
Changed the plugs in the car, ran fine, then all of a sudden, white smoke in big amounts coming from front bank. CEL code says cylinder 5 misfire, took the plug out, fouled. Changed plug, ran fine, and then this morning, same thing! Really at a loss... what could cause a misfire on cylinder 5 with white smoke bellowing from the exhaust?

Mechanic ruled out head gasket which we thought it was before...

any help would be appreciated!
EDIT: Posted wrong code! :troutslap:
Click to expand...

nobody eh?
 
white smoke?

white smoke?

When the plug fouls compare it to a chart of sparkplugs that show different conditions. This may lead to a answer about what is causing failure. Hayes has a chart in the back of my contour book. Any evidence of antifreeze in the oil? Milky or foamy? How long has the engine been running when the plug fouls? If it has been running for a while prior to fouling the plug then the cause would be difficult to find during testing the engine while cold. I always heard that white smoke was caused by antifreeze leaking into the cylinder. Maybe the head gasket leaks when the engine is hot. Warped head? Just some thoughts. Dan
 
Dan the rug man said:
When the plug fouls compare it to a chart of sparkplugs that show different conditions. This may lead to a answer about what is causing failure. Hayes has a chart in the back of my contour book. Any evidence of antifreeze in the oil? Milky or foamy? How long has the engine been running when the plug fouls? If it has been running for a while prior to fouling the plug then the cause would be difficult to find during testing the engine while cold. I always heard that white smoke was caused by antifreeze leaking into the cylinder. Maybe the head gasket leaks when the engine is hot. Warped head? Just some thoughts. Dan
Click to expand...

No coolant in the oil we already did tryd that..
 
Misfire

Misfire

Do you still have the plug to compare with plug chart? A old chiltons manual talks about testing compression with all plugs removed, throttle wide open then crank engine. Please verify that checking in this manner will not harm ignition componants. Remeber that this book was printed in 1986. It may not address newer high energy ignition systems. If the pressure is low on two adjacent cylinders then you have a blown head gasket between the cylinders. You may also want to presurize the cooling system to see if you can recreate the fouling problem. This again may help identify the problem. You could have a blown head gasket that is leaking into the cylinder and not the oil. Have you noticed any coolant loss? Under this troubleshooting guide it says "Check for combustion leaks into the cooling system. Pressurize the cooling system. Start the engine and observe the pressure gauge. If the needle fluxes then remove the suspected plug wire (#5) , noting is the fluxing is reduced or eliminated. If the fluxing is eliminated then replace the head gasket on the affected cylinder bank (s). In another thread someone was talking about some type of test (sniffer?) that checked for hydrocarbons in the coolant. This may worth checking out. Everything you listed leads me to believe you have a blown gasket. It may not be a major failure but enough to cause problems. Please do not continue to drive the car until you correct the problem. If you continue to drive this car you may have a major coolant leak into the cylinder causing a hydro lock condition. This could cause major damage to the piston, crank and associated parts. Another member recently ran a car with major issues and puked the engine. Dan
 
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yeah, im going to be checking out alot of stuff after the holidays, and car isnt moving from the garage til i figure it out and gt it fixed...
 
Well, changed the plugs, wires, and also straightened out a firing order that wasnt really a problem, but was weird... so i know the coil dis probably fine!

*FYI, if you put the 1-2-3 wires on the back of the coil, and the 4-6-5 on the front, for some weird reason, the car will run fine, or at least mine did for well over a year!

But i fixed them and put them to the other side of the coil where they belong, and the misfire continued to be on cylinder 5. I let the car idle for about 30 seconds and took the spark plug back out, and it was wet, and smelled like fuel!

I am almost leaning towards a faulty fuel injector, or something that is causing it to just spray and spray to the point it fouls the plug as it cant burn the fuel fast enough. This I would think could have very harmful effects on the engine no? Im going to switch around 2 fuel injectors and see if the midfire follows the cylinder 5 fuel injector, and try and rule out an injector problem.

Other then that, anyone else have any more ideas?
 
Fuel=black smoke
oil=bluish white smoke
coolant=white smoke, wispy character, maple syrup odor

Have a good look at the smoke.

It is possible to have a headgasket leak with little or no coolant gettinging into the oil, at least at the beginning.

Oil consumption is more common on most engines, either from rings or valve seals.

Most likely your missfire codes are from fouling the plug, whatever it is.

Do look at the plug to see what you can read as well as the exhaust smoke.
 
Big Jim said:
Fuel=black smoke
oil=bluish white smoke
coolant=white smoke, wispy character, maple syrup odor

Have a good look at the smoke.

It is possible to have a headgasket leak with little or no coolant gettinging into the oil, at least at the beginning.

Oil consumption is more common on most engines, either from rings or valve seals.

Most likely your missfire codes are from fouling the plug, whatever it is.

Do look at the plug to see what you can read as well as the exhaust smoke.
Click to expand...

then its definitely coolant... its white smoke, smells kinda sweet, so it is probably a head gasket, on the front bank...

I wish i knew how to change the head gasket, and check to make sure thats what it is... as far as pistons and stuff, i am kinda ignorant!

EDIT - 1 question, I have had two mechanics tell me fuel can also be white smoke!?
 
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The one mechanic I personally know, and is one of the best mechanics I've ever met, with numerous patents under his belt from products he has invented, and is working on other projects.

I am going to try and change the fuel injector on cylinder 5, and see if anything changes, and if not, then look into compression checking and trying to find out whats going on.

The car has a little under 75K on the motor, there is no coolant loss, there is no oil in the coolant, or vice versa, the fuel just isnt burning at all!

We shall see I guess...
 
Also, did anyone know that a SVT Contour will run compeltely fine with the firing order reversed? What I mean, is that on the front side of the coil is the 123 and on the back its 465, and I had mine switched for over 2 years, and never had a problem.... can anyone tel my why that is? I switched it after looking at another SVTC and seen that mine was backwards!

I had the 123 on the back, and the 465 on the front of the coil, weird right?!


Which is how I ruled out the coil as well!
 
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Remember that Contours use waste fire ignition. On a Duratec the coil pack isn't really six coils, it is three. Ignition takes place twice as often as needed. One coil in the coil pack fires two plugs. In any one cylinder, one of the plug firings is when it doesn't have compressed air and fuel to ignite. If you swap the wires on those two plugs, it will still run fine.

One of those two firings is in reverse polarity, and thus the need for double platinum plugs. Platinum is only needed on the firing side. Double platinum makes it "idiot proof" so that you don't need to worry about which cylinder to install the center wire platinum plug in and which cylinder to install the side wire platinum plug in.

Probably more than you really wanted to know.
 
Big Jim said:
Remember that Contours use waste fire ignition. On a Duratec the coil pack isn't really six coils, it is three. Ignition takes place twice as often as needed. One coil in the coil pack fires two plugs. In any one cylinder, one of the plug firings is when it doesn't have compressed air and fuel to ignite. If you swap the wires on those two plugs, it will still run fine.

One of those two firings is in reverse polarity, and thus the need for double platinum plugs. Platinum is only needed on the firing side. Double platinum makes it "idiot proof" so that you don't need to worry about which cylinder to install the center wire platinum plug in and which cylinder to install the side wire platinum plug in.

Probably more than you really wanted to know.
Click to expand...


Thats an awesome way of explaining it, thanks Big Jim! I really think I am going to switch my wires back to the way that I had them before because the wires were prettier, there was less excess, and since the car ran fine, and you are telling me that it should have ran fine, makes sense to me, no?
 
I took some pictures of the head gasket and stuff. I don't know if there is confusion or not but if there is, maybe this will help a bit.

With the head gasket on, you can see that all of the passage ways are blocked to keep everything seperated.

P1020666.jpg


With it off you can now see the different passages.

The blue circles are the water jackets.

The red are the oil passage ways.

The black are for the head bolts.


P10206672.jpg





As you can see, it is really tight in there. And it doesn't have to be a catastrophic blow out either, just a tear. It could affect just the coolant, just the oil, just compression (by blowing out between the oil and coolant and not actually hitting either) or all of the above or any combination.

To replace the gaskets, aren't hard. But new head bolts are expensive, the head may need to be decked, you'd obviously need a new head gasket and so on.
 
69Boss302 said:
I took some pictures of the head gasket and stuff. I don't know if there is confusion or not but if there is, maybe this will help a bit.

With the head gasket on, you can see that all of the passage ways are blocked to keep everything seperated.

P1020666.jpg


With it off you can now see the different passages.

The blue circles are the water jackets.

The red are the oil passage ways.

The black are for the head bolts.


P10206672.jpg





As you can see, it is really tight in there. And it doesn't have to be a catastrophic blow out either, just a tear. It could affect just the coolant, just the oil, just compression (by blowing out between the oil and coolant and not actually hitting either) or all of the above or any combination.

To replace the gaskets, aren't hard. But new head bolts are expensive, the head may need to be decked, you'd obviously need a new head gasket and so on.
Click to expand...

Boss, you are the man, I am going to try one of the fuel inejctors you sent me just in case, but if I have to, I will be trying to tackle this head gasket myself. If I have to do a head gasket, is there anything I need to know before I go tearing into it...

Man, I don't know if I can really do this or not... this sucks?

And if the head is ok, what other parts do i need to change besides the gasket?
 
You may not have to replace everything on this list, but it will cover everything I can think of.

from the top down:

EGR gasket
UIM/LIM gasket
Valve cover gasket to include the ring gaskets for the spark plug holes. Fel-pro sells it as a complete set.
Crankshaft bolt (Torque-to-yield)
Crank case gasket
Crank gasket
Head bolts (Also TTY)
Head gasket
Oil change
oil filter
new coolant

It will get expensive and will be difficult to do in the car but possible. The cams will have to come out to get to the head bolts. This will require you to be extremely meticulous on what goes where and everything must be kept in order. The bolts for the cams may be TTY as well, not sure.

You'll need a torque wrench, pulley puller, paper towels, degreaser (I swear by Simple Green. $9 from Home Depot for a gallon of concentrate.), beer, patience and more beer. Ok, beer isn't neccessary but helps dull the pain.

EDIT: If the car didn't overheat, chances are that the head may be ok. However, if it was a head gasket and in my car, I'd still have a machine shop look at it. They will be able to tell you if it needs to be decked or not.
 
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