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My Very Own Turbo Thread! (to be a long work in progress)

M

mixtape

CEG's Most Wanted
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
607
Location
NJ
Hey guys,

So it's finally happening! It's been my dream to turbo a Contour SVT for literally years. I'm finally at the point in life :cool:. It took a great deal of sacrifice, but the best things require hard work and planning :).

I purchased a kit from Justin, who unfortunately had to let the kit go. He is starting a family so I wish him well, and assured him that the kit will get installed and treated well. I've spent the better part of the last few months researching almost every aspect and component in a turbo system. Being not only my first turbo kit, this will be my first time driving a turbo car :help:. I've been able to answer all my questions but six, which hopefully someone with much more experience than I have can chime in:

If you can spare the time, I actually went ahead and made a 15 minute video (in two parts) of everything I have so far (minus the parts already on my car: such as a racing clutch, lightweight flywheel, Remus cat-back, and a K&N with Pudmonkey heat shield). It's actually a fun watch that can double as a checklist for CEGers in the future :laugh:. Please feel free to comment on YouTube and CEG if you'd like.
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpmvbhppTmQ
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31rKVLh9dR4

Questions:

1.) The kit came with a Tial BOV. While I read that this is a great BOV, I've had my eyes set on a HKS SSQV (version 2 or 3). SSQV+ CSVT = :drool:. However, I read that a VTA BOV could foul my plugs and/or bog my car down with potential backfiring due a rich spike on shifts/while letting off the throttle. In that case, Alex says that their is an adapter for the SSQV so that it will recirculate. While it may hinder sound, it's probably the safest route. I took a look on eBay and Amazon (btw eBay is loaded with fake BOVs :blackeye:), but they all seem to be vehicle specific. Is there a specific size/model number of the BOV and recirc adapter kit I should look for? I doublt I'll see a "HKS SSQV2 BOV for Contour SVT" or "HKS SSQV recirculation kit for Contour SVT" anytime soon :laugh:. If anyone has a used 2nd gen or 3rd gen lying around, please let me know!

2.) I don't know much about the turbo itself besides the information stamped on it. A Google search yielded some confusing information. If you can, check out the Part 2 video about a minute and 15 seconds into it. I posted a chart I found online. However it displays two trim numbers and two A/R numbers (compressor and turbine). Which one is used when people talk about their specs? I was also told that this is a pretty big turbo with a "massive wheel." What do all these specs mean as far as the power band? With a .50 A/R stamped on the turbo, I'm guessing that boost will come in on a fairly low RPM. Or does the bigger than average wheel take more time to build up, raising the boost band? Just curious as to what I should expect. With the Torsen, I should be able to put the power down to the ground, but if it kicks on hard & fast, that may be difficult for street driving. I don't plan on going higher than 8lbs of boost since the 'tour will become my new DD once I sell my Civic to recuperate some of the Contour cost.

3.) With a 8lb wastegate, I should be fairly safe with a stock engine (using 42# green top injectors), but how much pressure will this turbo make? Is a 38mm wastegate (shown at 7:35 in Part 1 video) efficient enough for this turbo? Everyone says to go 50mm to be on the safe side (to prevent the waste gate from getting backed up and an undesired increase in boost), but I'm wondering if I'd be ok using this one. I'd hate to order another wastegate, but I tend to worry (more than I need to sometimes lol). FWIW, Justin tells me that this is the wastegate that Joey includes with his kits.

4.) The Torsen is used, but should work perfectly fine. It did not come with a speedo gear or bearings though. I was told the speedo gear can be resued, but I don't know the part number for the Ford bearings? RockAuto only sells Timken (which are surprisingly only $5 but I've never heard of that brand). FWIW, I have a cougar trans (possibility out of a '99) but I don't think that the diffs were different. The part numbers are most likely the same.

5.) Greg says that, most likely, the engine and trans will need to be pulled to install the Torsen, and to tap the oil line into the engine block. This got me thinking. While it was not my original thought to consider a 3L swap, would now be the smartest time to do so? Since an engine has to go out, an engine has to go back in. My 2.5L has just over 100k miles and I would hate to retire it so early, but a 3L can handle the turbo better, offers more torque outside of boost, and may have lower miles. Also, I've noticed that the prime engine is a 2004 Escape. I read that 2005 was the first year for cast cranks, not forged (which I was told were designed with lower RPM use in mind - like 6 speed trans - which definitely won't do). I also think 2004 was the first year for the better flowing intake. Plus I forget the starting year, but I believe 2004 had the updated cams which were similar to the SVT's specs.

6.) My car came with a 2 gauge pod from the previous owner. Currently it has a vacuum gauge, and a disconnected narrow-band A/F gauge which he put there for show :\. I haven't purchased any gauges yet, but an AEM wide-band A/F ratio gauge and boost gauge are two I'd like to get. While I only have room for two gauges, do I need a temperature gauge of some sort for the turbo? Since it has an electric cooling system with a switched pump, I'm guessing I would need to turn it on when the turbo runs hot, but I would need a gauge to determine that (or do I use the engine temp for determining that)? Sorry again for sounding naive, I've never actually driven a turbo car before and I want to take care of it properly. If I need a temp gauge, am I looking for an oil temp gauge or some type of coolant gauge? Or oil pressure gauge? I have seen pods for 3 gauges out there if I do need 3.

Sorry for the novel of a post, but be thankful for Google! Otherwise my boatload of questions would have came pouring into CEG :crazy::laugh:. Thanks so much guys. It means more than a lot.

Shoutout and thanks to Justin, Greg, Adam, Alex, and of course, CEG :D.
 
The Diff bearings on RA are the wrong part. Timken does make good bearings though, just for future reference. The Ford part# for the bearings you need is F7RZ-4221-AC.
 
1. The Tial BOV is fine.
2. I didn't watch the video, but a 50 trim, if that's what it is, is not a massive turbo by anymeans. It will work well for this car.
3. You could go to a 50mm waste gate, but that is just added costs that really aren't necessary. A boost spike at that boost level will only be 1-2 psi for a split second. If you really are worried about it, run a lower wastegate spring (5lb), and then a boost controller.
4 & 5. If you are going to pull the motor, this is the time to install a 3L and get your trans worked on. If you haven't done any trans work on your car yet (diff, tower mod, etc), your best bet is to send it off to someone who knows what they are doing (Terry Haines). That way you can get everything done at once, and not have to worry about pulling your trans/motor again.
6. Boost and A/F are all that you really need. But most people like to have a oil pressure gauge, or a fuel pressure gauge to be on the safe side. Temp gauges are not needed, you can just go by the temp gauge on the dash, provided that it is hooked up and working properly.
 
1) I dont know anything about the HKS, so u might have to do some more research on that. I personally have the turboXS one that came with joey's kit, and has worked fine the last 3 years. Its pretty small tho, so i'm looking to upgrade it.
2) I didnt watch the video as well, but the turbo trims in joey's kit is a .57/.63. so i'd imagine a 50 trim will work fine. Most likely, u'll be boosting quicker as its a smaller turbine.
3) 38mm wastegate works just fine.
4) I've no idea about the internals of a torsen. But depending on how much the previous owner got on it, and the mileage, u should be able to reinstall without worrying about the internals.
5) My advice? Dont turbo ur 2.5. Even tho u might've taken care of ur car, u cant be sure what condition the pistons are in. I'd put in a low mileage 3L. Especially considering this is gonna be ur DD...
6) Like was brought out, those are the two most important guages that u already have. Boost & A/F. I'll advice u got an oil pressure guage as well. Depending on the weather & oil weight u've chosen to run, the temp guage on the car will get to operating range b4 the oil has warmed up enough. In other words, if its a cold day, and the car's temp guage is within operating range, if u're running a thicker oil which u INEVITABLY WILL cuz of the amount of heat a turbo'd car dissipates, the oil wont be light enough. So if u got on it b4 the oil warms up, u could starve the turbo and break it. What i'm trying to say is this: Get an oil pressure guage if u can. A mechanical one if possible.
 
BAD SVT said:
1) I dont know anything about the HKS, so u might have to do some more research on that. I personally have the turboXS one that came with joey's kit, and has worked fine the last 3 years. Its pretty small tho, so i'm looking to upgrade it.
2) I didnt watch the video as well, but the turbo trims in joey's kit is a .57/.63. so i'd imagine a 50 trim will work fine. Most likely, u'll be boosting quicker as its a smaller turbine.
3) 38mm wastegate works just fine.
4) I've no idea about the internals of a torsen. But depending on how much the previous owner got on it, and the mileage, u should be able to reinstall without worrying about the internals.
5) My advice? Dont turbo ur 2.5. Even tho u might've taken care of ur car, u cant be sure what condition the pistons are in. I'd put in a low mileage 3L. Especially considering this is gonna be ur DD...
6) Like was brought out, those are the two most important guages that u already have. Boost & A/F. I'll advice u got an oil temp guage as well. Depending on the weather & oil weight u've chosen to run, the temp guage on the car will get to operating range b4 the oil has warmed up enough. In other words, if its a cold day, and the car's temp guage is within operating range, if u're running a thicker oil which u INEVITABLY WILL cuz of the amount of heat a turbo'd car dissipates, the oil wont be light enough. So if u got on it b4 the oil warms up, u could starve the turbo and break it. What i'm trying to say is this: Get an oil pressure guage if u can. A mechanical one if possible.
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You talk about oil temp gauge, but then tell him to get an oil pressure gauge? Oil temp isn't important, and like I said earlier, if you want another gauge oil/fuel pressure is the way to go.

And there is nothing wrong with boosting a 2.5. Mine has 26-27k on it with no problems. How many miles do you have on your 3l's? But if he is going to pull his engine and trans then he might as well do the swap now.
 
the HKS is a great BOV and is easy to setup in either VTA or recirc (just need the recirc adapter). depending on how far from the filter the recirc port is will depend on how much sound you lose, but they are very loud to begin with so you will most definitely be able to still hear it. For example, the Greddy Type S on my VR4 is recirculated and the port goes into the intake bubble (splitter after MAF to feed both turbos), this puts the port about 8-10 inches from the filter and its still easily heard, and the Type S isnt all that loud to begin with.

the best way to get an HKS for the SVT is going to be to get one of the universal kits with the weld on adapter and recirc fitting all included (although sometimes you can find them all separately for cheaper). of course, if you want to do a VTA setup then you can either tune the car for it with the draw through MAF or you can run the MAF in a blow through setup and have the BOV before the MAF. since the car is going to have to be tuned anyways, going with a blow through setup shouldnt be a big deal (a lot of the 3S guys convert to a blow through MAF with a GM 3/3.5" MAF and a MAF translator).
 
bhiggs89 said:
You talk about oil temp gauge, but then tell him to get an oil pressure gauge? Oil temp isn't important, and like I said earlier, if you want another gauge oil/fuel pressure is the way to go.

And there is nothing wrong with boosting a 2.5. Mine has 26-27k on it with no problems. How many miles do you have on your 3l's? But if he is going to pull his engine and trans then he might as well do the swap now.
Click to expand...

lol. my mistake. i meant to say to get an oil pressure guage, not oil temp. i'll edit the post. And i dont think he needs a fuel pressure guage. takes two mins to measure it from his fuel rail.
 
bhiggs89 said:
And there is nothing wrong with boosting a 2.5. Mine has 26-27k on it with no problems. How many miles do you have on your 3l's? But if he is going to pull his engine and trans then he might as well do the swap now.
Click to expand...

I'll still stick with my opinion of not boosting a 2.5 with over 100k miles on it. Unless, u plan on rarely using the turbo, then u can go ahead n do it. My experience tells me that a turbod contour, 2.5 or 3.0 is a bad idea anyway if u're looking for longevity. All i'm saying is that ur odds are better if u're starting with a low mileage engine.
 
Alright well it looks like most people have chimed in to answer your questions. I started to watch your video, which was painful for me to watch (sorry, no offense). The 'tank' you refer to is the water reservoir tank to feed the air to water intercooler, and the intercooler is the component you got confused about later on in the video, which says 'X-Power' on it. I don't know that any other CEGer should reference that video really as 1) it's an old kit ADC does not make them anymore, and 2) it's like the blind leading the blind.

How do you plan to tune this car? If your having anyone other then Joey tune it for your question number one get a recirculating BOV. These cars use a mass air flow sensor to read incoming air volume. If you use a BOV that does not recirculate the air back into the system your are blowing off 'metered air' which has been accounted for in your air/fuel ratio calc in the ECM. While Joey has done a great job of tuning for this, it is not necessarily the correct way.
 
you can use a BOV in VTA on a MAF without any issues IF you go to a blow-through setup that puts the MAF right before the TB, after the turbo and intercooler. you then put the BOV before the MAF.
 
striker2 said:
you can use a BOV in VTA on a MAF without any issues IF you go to a blow-through setup that puts the MAF right before the TB, after the turbo and intercooler. you then put the BOV before the MAF.
Click to expand...

Has anyone set theirs up like that?
 
I know its a supercharger but blackcoogs kit is blow through, so it's possible but maybe a little harder to tune.
 
striker2 said:
you can use a BOV in VTA on a MAF without any issues IF you go to a blow-through setup that puts the MAF right before the TB, after the turbo and intercooler. you then put the BOV before the MAF.
Click to expand...

You could... but why would you want to? The MAF was not designed to do deal with pressurized air. I'd hate to be replacing a $200 MAF sensor (well that's what my 90mm Lightning MAF goes for) just so I could have a sweet BOV blow-off sound...
 
CSVT#49 said:
You could... but why would you want to? The MAF was not designed to do deal with pressurized air. I'd hate to be replacing a $200 MAF sensor (well that's what my 90mm Lightning MAF goes for) just so I could have a sweet BOV blow-off sound...
Click to expand...

u know, i've had my BOV vented to atm for just over 3yrs now. i've never even cleaned my lightning 90mm MAF once. works just fine...:shrug:
 
BAD SVT said:
u know, i've had my BOV vented to atm for just over 3yrs now. i've never even cleaned my lightning 90mm MAF once. works just fine...:shrug:
Click to expand...

You shouldn't have any problems since your MAF is before the turbo. He is saying that if you put the MAF after the turbo (which is how it should be set up since the BOV is vented to atmosphere) you could run into problems.
 
CSVT#49 said:
You could... but why would you want to? The MAF was not designed to do deal with pressurized air. I'd hate to be replacing a $200 MAF sensor (well that's what my 90mm Lightning MAF goes for) just so I could have a sweet BOV blow-off sound...
Click to expand...
the air being presurized isnt an issue. Blackcoug has been doing it for years with his SC setup. also, FWIW the GM 3/3.5" MAFs were designed for an NA system but function perfectly in a blow-through setup without any issues.
 
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