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Help with a 3L Build

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pwntbywombat

CEG'er
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
253
Location
Cranberry Twp, PA
My 2.5 recently crapped itself. I dont know what happened, but i know its time to move to a 3L. I know that i want to have the SVT intakes, so the full 3L is out. But i know a buddy of mine that did a hybrid (3L short block and 2.5L heads and intakes), i rode in it and i liked how it drove. But when i read on CEG, everyone seems to do the 3L heads. What is the difference? Why would the 3L heads be better? All the port matching wouldn't be necessary with just using the 2.5L heads...correct?
 
2.5 heads raises the compression up , they also have oil drain back issues. Some people could say it makes more power that way, but... I don't think it does.

I would recommend keeping the 3L heads
 
He did say he was running a very high compression. But if I was building a "all motor" car, wouldn't high compression be the key to more power? And if there are issues with the oil drain back in the 2.5L heads, wouldn't it be apparent in the stock SVT 2.5L? What makes you gravitate towards the 3L heads other then the oil issue you spoke of? And will the 2.5 heads bolt up to the newer 01+ 3.0Ls? I believe there was a revision of the heads in 98, from what i remember reading somewhere there was a change in head design, does this effect the ability to swap the 2.5 head onto the 3.0L?
 
pwntbywombat said:
He did say he was running a very high compression. But if I was building a "all motor" car, wouldn't high compression be the key to more power? And if there are issues with the oil drain back in the 2.5L heads, wouldn't it be apparent in the stock SVT 2.5L? What makes you gravitate towards the 3L heads other then the oil issue you spoke of? And will the 2.5 heads bolt up to the newer 01+ 3.0Ls? I believe there was a revision of the heads in 98, from what i remember reading somewhere there was a change in head design, does this effect the ability to swap the 2.5 head onto the 3.0L?
Click to expand...

As a all motor car high compression is nice, dynos seem to show they are close in HP/TQ...

IMO, the pros in that don't nearly out way the heavy con of the 2.5 heads, and yes it is apparent in the SVT 2.5L (Someone will chime in) . Yes they bolt up to the 01-04 BUT you have to modify one of the oil drain backs, plug it, weld it.

You Might want to consider port matched 3L if you are stuck on the SVT intakes, if you don't want to port the heads, pick up a nautilus LIM, If you don't mind no secondaries.
 
Yeah, i know what the different types of combinations are. I was just asking if that was a good article and if it accurately depicted how to port match the 3L. This will be my first engine build, and i want to make sure i get it right. My next question would be, what are all the things that have to be modified on the block itself to make it fit properly in the contour, ive heard about electric water pumps, and i saw someone else's thread on the alternator bracket. Ive also heard things about return and returnless fuel injectors, i have an E0 SVT so mine are return style, do i need to change this to make them work with the 3L heads? im just trying to get an idea of what i am getting myself into before i get this thing home and start tearing it down.
 
If you want to avoid filling the oil drainback in the 3L block while still using the 2.5 heads and fixing the oil starvation problem, then I believe you can bolt up a newer set of Cougar 2.5 heads ('01-'02)? It has been awhile since I've seen a set, but I think that is what the Cougar guys do. I port match 3L heads to SVT intakes on almost every 3L build. It is the best, quickest and most cost effective way to go for me personally. I don't like the idea of plugging the 3L block and using your probably high mileage SVT heads. Not the smartest to throw a low mileage block in with a bunch of new parts and high mileage heads in my opinion. Do it right, do it once. The 3L block with 2.5 SVT heads isn't a bad build, just not for me. Look into the Cougar heads that I mentioned. Maybe somebody here will chime in.


Reebs
 
Thanks for the help guys, but i have a few more questions. Like the use of the '01 cougar motor mount? Why not just get the NPG polly mounts? And 04 was the first year that the 3L was NOT COP? Correct?
 
The use of the front '01 Cougar Mount as it is referred to is not what you are thinking. That is the front mount being the front of the motor, ie timing cover side. For us guys that keep the 3L heads, we have to grind the heck out of the Contour mount to fit it between the 3L heads without removing them. The Cougar mount requires less grinding. You are talking about the front and rear roll resistors which wouldn't be a bad idea to replace with some poly filled ones if you don't mind a little vibration in the car at idle. Your stock rolls are probably shot anyways. I bet the rear is sagging like a mofo if it is original. And '04 was the first year that WAS COP. '01-'03 were still wires with coilpack. '04 up are COP. You just got that reversed too! :laugh:
 
Haha, ok. Now that thats all cleared up. Im trying to find a place to pick up a 3L or have one delivered. Everywhere i read about people getting them for >350 bucks delivered. Where are you finding these motors! lol
 
junkyards, LKQ. just make sure u get as much info as possible on the motor u're picking up. i got mine from LKQ. they've got reliable engines. mine was an 04 which had 30k miles when i got it. about 800bucks i believe. it was an escape motor by the way. only a taurus or sable motor is as cheap as $350.
 
Reebs said:
The use of the front '01 Cougar Mount as it is referred to is not what you are thinking. That is the front mount being the front of the motor, ie timing cover side. For us guys that keep the 3L heads, we have to grind the heck out of the Contour mount to fit it between the 3L heads without removing them. The Cougar mount requires less grinding. You are talking about the front and rear roll resistors which wouldn't be a bad idea to replace with some poly filled ones if you don't mind a little vibration in the car at idle. Your stock rolls are probably shot anyways. I bet the rear is sagging like a mofo if it is original. And '04 was the first year that WAS COP. '01-'03 were still wires with coilpack. '04 up are COP. You just got that reversed too! :laugh:
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean here. IIRC COP started to be used consistently in 01. 00 was a bastard year with some with coil packs and some with COP. My 03 Escape has COP.
 
Big Jim said:
I'm not sure what you mean here. IIRC COP started to be used consistently in 01. 00 was a bastard year with some with coil packs and some with COP. My 03 Escape has COP.
Click to expand...

Hmm... wonder if the Escape went to COP earlier? I have had a number of 3L's that I recieved with the wires/harness gutted off them for whatever reason but I could have sworn the 01-03 Taurus 3L's aren't COP. I guess I could be wrong on that... but I don't think so? :shrug:
 
Calling LKQ is worth your time as well. I try to balance the mileage with the amount of time its been on the shelf when I decide what motor to buy.

In my opinion it would be worth a few extra miles to know it hasn't been sitting for months.

The last one I picked up had 15K miles and 26 days in inventory before I bought for I wanna say ~550.00.
 
It probably would bolt in, but there are differences that you would need to account for, the biggest is that it has variable cam timing that you would need to figure out how to control. I don't know that anyone has attempted to use a Fusion (or 500) engine yet to figure out what all needs to be done.
 
well, i plan on using the svt cams, and my svt pcm. so, the svt pcm doesnt know about VCT, so in theory i could just disconnect it the VCT sensor on the end of the cam (whichever one it maybe), and i should be fine...right? lol
 
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