Swirl/split port 3L long block swap? (already been searchin)

[SicSE]

what is the deal with the water pump location on a complete 01 aluminum oval UIM 3L?

01 water pump is the same design as the Contour, IIRC.
00+ 3L IM's are all plastic.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

01 water pump is the same design as the Contour, IIRC.
00+ 3L IM's are all plastic.

then what year engine was I've seen with an oval port aluminum UIM? I'd rather have a metal part there, incase I wreck I dont want all sorts of parts snapping off my UIM and making the car non-functional without replacing the UIM. yes, I know that sounds a little silly, but I've damaged plastic parts more often than aluminum parts. I also clean my engine bay with TB cleaner from time to time ands it seems like a plastic intake wouldn't like that. he11, seems like it probably wouldn't like being seafoamed either.

 

[SicSE]

The aluminum UIM's were on the 3L split ports from 96-99. They're only oval until just before the LIM, then they split.

Oval port intakes are plastic and have a different bolt pattern from LIM to UIM. So an oval LIM does not bolt up to a split UIM, and vice versa.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

The aluminum UIM's were on the 3L split ports from 96-99. They're only oval until just before the LIM, then they split.

Oval port intakes are plastic and have a different bolt pattern from LIM to UIM. So an oval LIM does not bolt up to a split UIM, and vice versa.

ahh, but that long block won't work easily because it has the waterpump in the wrong place?

I'll be limited to what I have available in my price range I guess as far as engines go.

I guess at this point what I need most is to gather info to do a cost benefit ratio between the available builds.

If I was to ask what 3l build would be the cheapest/easiest, what would you say and why?

thanks for all the input guys.

 

[95Mike]

I just finished my ported 3l swap and I'd have to say I spent ~2,000 by the time it's all said and done. That was with all the labor done by me and a torsen as well. You HAVE to replace your diff. I have a post about mine in the mtx forums. It didn't seem that bad, but by the time you buy all fluids, sealers, gaskets, misc. tools, ect... it really adds up. That is with an '03 20k mile engine for $450 from LKQ. I did not remove the heads either. Anyways, just trying to let you know what you're looking at moneywise. I can't imagine a straight 3l would be much cheaper.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

well I'm planning on a much cheaper engine than that, like 170 is what I'm seeing.

I'm also definately not planning on doing an 04 swap, why use an engine that will be harder to use? I'm planning on finding a medium low mile 00-01 long block and dropping it in whole.

from what I've seen, it mostly just takes splicing a EGR tube with the coupler, and rerouting the vac lines to all the right places.

I see no point in using VLIM and IMRC on an oval port head.

I was looking into the split port because of cost and because my VLIM would bolt right up, but since the consensus is that that engine will pop tied to an MTX, I guess I'm leaning to the 00-01's now.

still have to hunt down an engine.

a little question, say I find an 00-01 oval type with higher miles than a 97-98 split port, would the lower mile split port still be more fragile?

thanks.

 

[xtascox]

Go to car-part.com and fine one with low miles. I've seen low mileage, later model 3 liters for ~$400.

 

[SicSE]

from what I've seen, it mostly just takes splicing a EGR tube with the coupler, and rerouting the vac lines to all the right places.

CKP is on the other side of the crank starting in 00. I also think I remember reading something about needing to extend the wiring for the knock sensor on certain swaps.

I see no point in using VLIM... my VLIM would bolt right up

What is VLIM?

a little question, say I find an 00-01 oval type with higher miles than a 97-98 split port, would the lower mile split port still be more fragile?

Do you know what it is that's supposed to be so fragile? The crank didn't change at all up to 05. They revised the piston & rod combo for 99's and again for 00, but I don't know exactly what changes they made.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

CKP is on the other side of the crank starting in 00. I also think I remember reading something about needing to extend the wiring for the knock sensor on certain swaps.


What is VLIM?


Do you know what it is that's supposed to be so fragile? The crank didn't change at all up to 05. They revised the piston & rod combo for 99's and again for 00, but I don't know exactly what changes they made.

VLIM= variable length intake manifold, it's an acronym that goes hand in hand with IMRC (intake manifold runner control)

see, IMRC is only the secondaries and their actuation mechanism, IMRC goes underneath VLIM

I have no idea what you mean by CKP, could you clue me in?

also, I'd say fragile rods/pistons/wrist pins is a pretty bad thing to have, wouldn't you? or are you trying to tell me a rod out the side of my block is ok?

(sorry for the sarcasm, couldn't resist, I do appreciate the help, thanks)

 

[xtascox]

VLIM= variable length intake manifold, it's an acronym that goes hand in hand with IMRC (intake manifold runner control)

see, IMRC is only the secondaries and their actuation mechanism, IMRC goes underneath VLIM

I have no idea what you mean by CKP, could you clue me in?

also, I'd say fragile rods/pistons/wrist pins is a pretty bad thing to have, wouldn't you? or are you trying to tell me a rod out the side of my block is ok?

(sorry for the sarcasm, couldn't resist, I do appreciate the help, thanks)

I don't think he said anything relating to fragile parts being ok. All he said was that the pistons and rods were revised for 99 and then again for 00 and that the crank did not change until 05. I don't know where you go the idea that he said anything fragile was ok...:shrug:

 

[Dyoel182]

I just finished my ported 3l swap and I'd have to say I spent ~2,000 by the time it's all said and done. That was with all the labor done by me and a torsen as well. You HAVE to replace your diff. I have a post about mine in the mtx forums. It didn't seem that bad, but by the time you buy all fluids, sealers, gaskets, misc. tools, ect... it really adds up. That is with an '03 20k mile engine for $450 from LKQ. I did not remove the heads either. Anyways, just trying to let you know what you're looking at moneywise. I can't imagine a straight 3l would be much cheaper.

$2000 doesnt seem bad at all considering all that you got plus a torsen. I'd love to find a 3L engine that cheap.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

I don't think he said anything relating to fragile parts being ok. All he said was that the pistons and rods were revised for 99 and then again for 00 and that the crank did not change until 05. I don't know where you go the idea that he said anything fragile was ok...:shrug:

well if you look at his post he didn't exactly answer my question either.

he instead asked his own question, and answered that.

what I was trying to get at is even though the swirl port three litre is supposed to have weaker rods/pistons/wristpins, does that really make up for mileage on the engine?

know what I mean?

I'm not rebuilding the long block, it's going in as-is (I know, not the best idea, but I'm not keeping it forever)

wouldn't a fresh "glass" engine be better than a ragged out later one?



PS: I think I may have jumped in his $h!z a little because I was slightly aggravated a guy trying to give me advice didn't even know what VLIM meant.

 

[muntus]

PS: I think I may have jumped in his $h!z a little because I was slightly aggravated a guy trying to give me advice didn't even know what VLIM meant.

I don't see why you would get aggravated by a guy for not knowing what a VLIM is.:shrug: He did know what the CKP was and you had to ask him what it was.

Fyi, I think you might be the only one on this site using the terms "VILM" and "swirl port."

 

[KAOS_3.0]

I don't see why you would get aggravated by a guy for not knowing what a VLIM is.:shrug: He did know what the CKP was and you had to ask him what it was.

Fyi, I think you might be the only one on this site using the terms "VILM" and "swirl port."

ok....

it's VLIM, not vilm, what would that be, variable intake length manifold?

(really not trying to be a prick)

and swirl port refers to split port IM/heads, while tumble port refers to oval IM/heads.

swirl port is because only air enters the second valve when the secondaries are open, which creates a swirl in the combustion chamber that helps mix the fuel and air charge in the chamber.

tumble port is because the air coming down the oval porting "tumbles" head over heels and hits the wide angle central injector mixing the air/fuel before it ever "tumbles" into the combustion chamber.

I would probably venture to assume that intake velocities are higher in swirl port set ups, the draw back is that this particular engine only uses one set of valves to deliver fuel.

I would also figure that VLIM is better technology since it's a slated addition to the new 3.5/3.7l duratec's, along side direct injection and dual cam VVTi.

and if you follow F1 you should know that quite a few F1 engines used VLIM, but with two injectors per cylinder, so the secondaries function properly. the other half of F1 engines used tumble port designs.

so both designs obviously have their merits.



but...

that isn't my real concern right now, all I want is a simple trouble free 3L swap.

 

[SicSE]

(sorry for the sarcasm)

The Q about VLIM was MY attempt at sarcasm. I consider our intake dual length or path, if anything other than just an intake.

My Q about what is fragile is because you have to double-check and triple check your info. There's a LOT of bad info floating around that just gets blindly regurgitated without ever actually being proven or disproven.

 

[95pgt-t]

in seven years on this site i've never once heard anyone call it a vlim.
just split port or oval port.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

The Q about VLIM was MY attempt at sarcasm. I consider our intake dual length or path, if anything other than just an intake.

My Q about what is fragile is because you have to double-check and triple check your info. There's a LOT of bad info floating around that just gets blindly regurgitated without ever actually being proven or disproven.

no doubt, I completely understand.

I've probably read more bogus non-sense since buying this 'tour than I have since I had an 86 'maro given too me and sold it because the people associated with it were so ignorant I couldn't even picture myself driving the same platform as them.

I'm just trying to see what anybody else's cheapest build had been.
I'm planning on using an old used long block, without tearing it down, and all I'm really planning on so far is having to swap my 2.5 timing cover, and 2.5 oil pan, and gaskets; splicing the main EGR pipe with a 5/8 coupler, flipping the trigger wheel, and running vac lines to the appropriate places on the firewall components. I may also have to rig something up for the TB issue.

is that pretty much it? (for an 01 swap)

I will address RTL codes after I get the engine in and functioning.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

in seven years on this site i've never once heard anyone call it a vlim.
just split port or oval port.

it's a common term that carries across all engines with "twin runner" intakes.

maybe you guys don't use the standard acronyms, but that is the correct term for what you guys call "dual path" IM's.


starting to remind me of people wanting to think ATB's actually count as LSD's technically just because the manufacturer markets them that way to laymen.

 

[95pgt-t]

its been that way on here for nine years..your not going to get anyone to change what they call our intake setup....so just use the common language around here,or explain yourself. easy enough

 

[95pgt-t]

it's a common term that carries across all engines with "twin runner" intakes.

maybe you guys don't use the standard acronyms, but that is the correct term for what you guys call "dual path" IM's.


starting to remind me of people wanting to think ATB's actually count as LSD's technically just because the manufacturer markets them that way to laymen.

fwiw,in my time on the shoboards i've never heard that term either..so its not just here:shrug: