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What sub is for me?

There's 2 types of bass. I like to refer them as...

1) punch bass. This is the type you hear from bass drums.

2) deep bass. This is the type you hear from a bass guitar.

A 10-inch subwoofer is usually designed for punch bass tones. That's not to say that it can't deliver deep bass tones because it can. Generally speaking, people who buy 10-inch subwoofers are buying them for that punch bass tones. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule. You will usually find punch bass in rock, classic rock, punk rock, heavy metal, classic R&B, jazz, and country music. It's usually said that (2) 10-inch subwoofers will hit harder than a single 12-inch subwoofer. This is generally the case because of their design to deliver punch bass tones. But like I said before, there are exceptions to the rule.

A 12-inch or 15-inch subwoofer is usually designed for deep bass tones. Again, that's not to say that it can't deliver punch bass tones because it can. Generally speaking, people who buy 12-inch or 15-inch subwoofers are buying them for that deep bass tones. Once again, there are exceptions to the rule. You will usually find deep bass in R&B, soul, jazz, hip-hop, rap, and country music.

For your type of music, it's clear that the 10-inch is the best choice. But this has nothing to do with how quickly a subwoofer responds, but how efficiently a subwoofer responds. Keep in mind that an amplifier delivering efficient power and a quality designed box plays a vital role on the performance of the subwoofer as well.

For example, in my Contour car audio setup, I have 2 Pioneer 10-inch free-air subwoofers bolted on the rear deck and 2 Infinity 12-inch subwoofers in a sealed box in the trunk. With the aid of crossovers and 2 separate Rocksford Fosgate amplifiers, I've tuned the 10-inch subwoofers to only pump out punch bass and the 12-inch subwoofers to only pump out deep bass. I listen to a lot of classic R&B, soul, jazz and "old school" (80's & 90's) music. As a result, I get the full clarity of music with very efficient bass (punch & deep bass tones) the way is was originally intended. I also have a 3rd Rocksford Fosgate amplifier that provides juice to my mids and highs in the factory location. My car actually sounds like a concert hall!:laugh:

It looks to me that you knew what you was saying, but didn't know how to say it. I hope I clarified it. Just remember, a subwoofer is not measured on how quickly it can put out bass, but how efficient it can deliver it. The key word is efficient.

as for quicker bass, a 15 will not respond as quickly as a 10 in general terms, i listen to alot of punk rock, and the same amp, on a 15 and a 10, the 15 takes longer to respond to the quick bass drum hits...

if you listen to rap with long bass tones, then a 15 is good, but for punk rock or ska music, a 10 is better
 
There's 2 types of bass. I like to refer them as...

1) punch bass. This is the type you hear from bass drums.

2) deep bass. This is the type you hear from a bass guitar.

A 10-inch subwoofer is usually designed for punch bass tones. That's not to say that it can't deliver deep bass tones because it can. Generally speaking, people who buy 10-inch subwoofers are buying them for that punch bass tones. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule. You will usually find punch bass in rock, classic rock, punk rock, heavy metal, classic R&B, jazz, and country music. It's usually said that (2) 10-inch subwoofers will hit harder than a single 12-inch subwoofer. This is generally the case because of their design to deliver punch bass tones. But like I said before, there are exceptions to the rule.

A 12-inch or 15-inch subwoofer is usually designed for deep bass tones. Again, that's not to say that it can't deliver punch bass tones because it can. Generally speaking, people who buy 12-inch or 15-inch subwoofers are buying them for that deep bass tones. Once again, there are exceptions to the rule. You will usually find deep bass in R&B, soul, jazz, hip-hop, rap, and country music.

For your type of music, it's clear that the 10-inch is the best choice. But this has nothing to do with how quickly a subwoofer responds, but how efficiently a subwoofer responds. Keep in mind that an amplifier delivering efficient power and a quality designed box plays a vital role on the performance of the subwoofer as well.

For example, in my Contour car audio setup, I have 2 Pioneer 10-inch free-air subwoofers bolted on the rear deck and 2 Infinity 12-inch subwoofers in a sealed box in the trunk. With the aid of crossovers and 2 separate Rocksford Fosgate amplifiers, I've tuned the 10-inch subwoofers to only pump out punch bass and the 12-inch subwoofers to only pump out deep bass. I listen to a lot of classic R&B, soul, jazz and "old school" (80's & 90's) music. As a result, I get the full clarity of music with very efficient bass (punch & deep bass tones) the way is was originally intended. I also have a 3rd Rocksford Fosgate amplifier that provides juice to my mids and highs in the factory location. My car actually sounds like a concert hall!:laugh:

It looks to me that you knew what you was saying, but didn't know how to say it. I hope I clarified it. Just remember, a subwoofer is not measured on how quickly it can put out bass, but how efficient it can deliver it. The key word is efficient.

Are you on crack, or do you seriously believe yourself? 6.5"-6x9"-7"-8"-10"-11"-12"-13"-15"-18"-21"-ect.ect. Has nothing to do with tone response. 10's are not designed to deliver 'punchier' bass, they are designed to give a more broadened market for consumers. Some people can't fit any 12" or larger sub in their car, (I.E. Toyota MR2, Pontiac Fiero, Honda Del Sol, ect. ect.) So they still want bass, but have to find something smaller, which would be the 10" and smaller subs. I had 2 8" Digital Designs 1008a's, and they hit lower and and harder than the 2 12" subs, and the 15" sub, I had in the same setup.

To stay on topic, I'd look into a DD 510, or 1510. Give it a good amount of power, and tune it to high 30's - low 40's. If you're not wanting to have a big bulky ported box, find some 8's to do an IB setup. You'll have to do some cutting, but you should have what you want.
 
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If you read my post carefully, I've stated...

"Generally speaking, people who buy 10-inch subwoofers are buying them for that punch bass tones. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule."

I was generally speaking. Of course, everyone has their own personal reasons for buying 10-inch and 12-inch subwoofers. Again, I wasn't speaking for everyone here. I was generally speaking. Read the statement carefully before you post something like that. If you have a question about my statement, ask me and I will clarify for you.

Are you on crack, or do you seriously believe yourself? 6.5"-6x9"-7"-8"-10"-11"-12"-13"-15"-18"-21"-ect.ect. Has nothing to do with tone response. 10's are not designed to deliver 'punchier' bass, they are designed to give a more broadened market for consumers. Some people can't fit any 12" or larger sub in their car, (I.E. Toyota MR2, Pontiac Fiero, Honda Del Sol, ect. ect.) So they still want bass, but have to find something smaller, which would be the 10" and smaller subs. I had 2 8" Digital Designs 1008a's, and they hit lower and and harder than the 2 12" subs, and the 15" sub, I had in the same setup.
 
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If you read my post carefully, I've stated...

"Generally speaking, people who buy 10-inch subwoofers are buying them for that punch bass tones. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule."

I was generally speaking. Of course, everyone has their own personal reasons for buying 10-inch and 12-inch subwoofers. Again, I wasn't speaking for everyone here. I was generally speaking. Read the statement carefully before you post something like that. If you have a question about my statement, ask me and I will clarify for you.

I've been in the car audio world for 13+ years, and I have never known anyone to buy a certain size sub for a certain tone range. You seem like you want to know a lot about car audio, but you have 2 10" subs in an IB setup, and 2 12" subs in the rear?
 
A 15" woofer will also have require less excursion for the same output. 15s are typically more efficient meaning less power is required to be sent for the same volume levels to be attained. Less power means less compression, less compression = more dynamic capability.


a 15" requires LESS power than a 10" to play the same Hz at the same db.....?

thats a new one for me.....
 
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Ever look at a sub senstivity?

Stroker 18 98db @ 1w/1m
Stroker 12 93db @ 1w/1m

Thats measured in a lab(ideal enviroment).
So
18 12
2w 101 96
4w 104 99
8w 107 102
ect.. ect

Its simple becuase of the cone area with the same power the large sub is louder. Soo with less power the larger sub can be just as loud if not louder.

Again this is in a ideal enviorment
 
Well put Steeda, many ppl never look at such info and that can be key to a system in either a home theater system or car setup. Having speakers that are matched in senstivity will result in better sound image and power flow.

And buy all the same brand does not always mean the speakers are of equal build/senstivity. In short any db senstivity above 90 is good and to have all the speakers in your system rated the same will yield great sound and allow it to be tune/adjustments made easier.
 
I've been in the car audio world for 13+ years, and I have never known anyone to buy a certain size sub for a certain tone range. You seem like you want to know a lot about car audio, but you have 2 10" subs in an IB setup, and 2 12" subs in the rear?

I've been in the car audio industry (as a hobby) since 1998. I've installed car audio equipment in numerous cars for my friends as well as myself. I've also given advice as to what size speakers will work best for their cars based on what type of music they listen to first, performance second, and compatibility third.

I have a keen ear for sound in regards to music. I like full clarity of all the instruments in a particular song. Having said that, I've taken a different approach to buying speakers. As you mentioned, a lot of people buy speakers primary based on compatibility for their car. I personally disagree with that. I buy speakers primary based on performance and what sound range those speakers are going to deliver. For me, compatibility takes a back seat. It's important, but not as important as performance. I know that EQ's and crossovers play a part in regards to what sound range the speakers will deliver, but I like to make sure that the speakers themselves will deliver the sound range at high volumes without distortion. It's a peace of mind for me.

An example of this is my Infinity Reference Component Speakers. The Contour was designed for a 6x8 speaker system in the doors. But because I want full fidelity, I've decided to go with a pair of 6.5-inch component woofers and tweeters. A friend gave me a pair of 6x8-to-6.5 installation plates so that I can mount the 6.5-inch component woofers in the factory locations. I took the same approach with the 2 Pioneer 10-inch free-air subwoofers. A typical rear deck houses 6x9 speakers. Some people will install an 8-inch subwoofer. I decided to do the ultimate and installed 2 Pioneer 10-inch free-air subwoofers. By this approach, this is what gives my sound system the full fidelity that it has today.

Here are some pictures. Click on the image for full scale viewing.

Alpine CD receiver & Kenwood EQ:


Alpine 6-CD changer installed in center console:


4-channel amplifier installed under the driver's seat powering speakers in all doors:


2-channel amplifier installed in the trunk powering 2 Pioneer 10-inch free-air subwoofers:


4-channel amp (bridged) powering 2 Infinity 12-inch subwoofers installed on subwoofer box:


Tweeter:


Infinity Reference 6.5-inch component woofer:


Infinity Kappa 6x8 2-way speaker:


2 Pioneer 10-inch free-air subwoofers:


2 Infinity Kappa 12-inch subwoofers:



In the last picture, look closely and you can see the magnets of the 2 Pioneer 10-inch free-air subwoofers hanging from the rear deck.
 
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Well put Steeda, many ppl never look at such info and that can be key to a system in either a home theater system or car setup. Having speakers that are matched in senstivity will result in better sound image and power flow.

And buy all the same brand does not always mean the speakers are of equal build/senstivity. In short any db senstivity above 90 is good and to have all the speakers in your system rated the same will yield great sound and allow it to be tune/adjustments made easier.

Amen to this! I agree 100%!! This is a vital tool that I use in selecting the speakers I want for my sound system. That's why I have the fidelity sound system in my car today!

Here are some picture of me, my wife and the car.





 
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a 15" requires LESS power than a 10" to play the same Hz at the same db.....?

thats a new one for me.....


As Steeda has already mentioned, a sub's sensitivity is measured in one of two ways. 2.83v/1m or 1w/1m. At 8 ohms, they are equal, at less then 8 ohms, obviously 2.83v provides more power than 1w. If you look at a typical 15" driver compared to a 12" or 10" driver of the same make/product line, the 15 will almost without exception be more efficient than a smaller diameter speaker. For a grossly simplified example, think of it this way, with very similar motor structures, a 10" driver will have about 50% of the cone area that a 15" woofer will have. So for the same input power, excursion will be the same, but the 15" driver is using 2x as much air. As mentioned, there is much more going on than that, but it gives you something to wrap your brain around and think about.

15s aren't for everyone, generally speaking, they require significantly more room, but if you can spare the space, there is no viable reason to eliminate a 15 from your consideration.

For the record, buying speakers based on cone weight/size is something that happens often, but it's based on misinformation and common misconceptions. Very heavy cones will have a small inconsequential effect on transient response as it can add a miniscule fraction to the subs inductance (Le) but it is so small that it's completely irrelevant, even when doing the calculations on paper, it's small enough to ignore.

Essentially, what it boils down to, if you buy speakers based on size to acheive a certain type of bass, you are either technically ignorant or completely misinformed.

BTW, technically ignorant isn't meant as an insult, I'm technically ignorant in many aspects of car audio. I could fight my way through designing a decent car audio amp, but many people would run circles around me in that regard. I would consider myself technically ignorant in the designing high freq switching power supplies for instance. I wouldn't attempt it.

Anyway, food for thought.
 
Well hopefully I'm defined as ignorant then, but I have 3 P3D410's for my setup because I like to listen to fast techno style music and I want my subs to have a quick response to my music, and I got three because I also want the thump, so I picked that setup for speed and thump...

I'll have to post the build pics sometime, 1st box and I don't think that I did a bad job at all. That's a post for another day though.
 
i have an 8W7 in the tour, and a 12W7 in the truck, both sound great. and i didn't need muliple subs to do it. my 12W7 is crazy, but still very clean.


they both do sound pretty decent
you'd never guess that was an 8" in the tour
 
Well hopefully I'm defined as ignorant then, but I have 3 P3D410's for my setup because I like to listen to fast techno style music and I want my subs to have a quick response to my music, and I got three because I also want the thump, so I picked that setup for speed and thump...

I'll have to post the build pics sometime, 1st box and I don't think that I did a bad job at all. That's a post for another day though.

When choosing a sub, look at the Mms. Weight of the cone. The less it weighs the easier it is for the suspension to move it, which in turn is said to be able to reproduce notes quicker. Not sure if that's a myth or fact. My DD's that I had reproduced music great, and were very musical for a sub that's suppose to be an SPL 8. They hit the lowend with authority, but still had the ability to hurt you in the higher frequency's, which is what DD subs are known for.
 
When choosing a sub, look at the Mms. Weight of the cone. The less it weighs the easier it is for the suspension to move it, which in turn is said to be able to reproduce notes quicker. Not sure if that's a myth or fact. My DD's that I had reproduced music great, and were very musical for a sub that's suppose to be an SPL 8. They hit the lowend with authority, but still had the ability to hurt you in the higher frequency's, which is what DD subs are known for.

Definitely a myth, cone weight has no bearing on a woofers ability to react to signal changes. Inductance is what limits an electrical signal from changing directions quickly.
 
lets say you have your amp set at half gain.....and you have a 10" inch sub hooked up to it, and its loud.....then....

if you disconnect that 10"....and in its place, hook up a 15" of the same Ohm .......and leave the amp unchanged...it will not be as loud. Don't even TRY to tell me it will be louder.

As Steeda has already mentioned, a sub's sensitivity is measured in one of two ways. 2.83v/1m or 1w/1m. At 8 ohms, they are equal, at less then 8 ohms, obviously 2.83v provides more power than 1w. If you look at a typical 15" driver compared to a 12" or 10" driver of the same make/product line, the 15 will almost without exception be more efficient than a smaller diameter speaker. As mentioned, there is much more going on than that, but it gives you something to wrap your brain around and think about.

Well, wrap your brain around the fact that in the real world a 10" magnet is ALOT smaller than a 15" magnet....and 2.83v will NOT have the same effect on both of them. The bigger magnet will need MORE power to juice it rather than the lil one.

The RMS of a 15" is ALWAYS higher than a 10" or 12"......"in the same model line" and at the same sensitivity....89db lets say...
 
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I was going to go on a little rant, going point by point, proving what an incredible moron you are. But after giving it some thought, I figure that no matter how hard I tried, the best way to show it would be just to quote your post.


lets say you have your amp set at half gain.....and you have a 10" inch sub hooked up to it, and its loud.....then....

if you disconnect that 10"....and in its place, hook up a 15" of the same Ohm .......and leave the amp unchanged...it will not be as loud. Don't even TRY to tell me it will be louder.



Well, wrap your brain around the fact that in the real world a 10" magnet is ALOT smaller than a 15" magnet....and 2.83v will NOT have the same effect on both of them. The bigger magnet will need MORE power to juice it rather than the lil one.

The RMS of a 15" is ALWAYS higher than a 10" or 12"......"in the same model line" and at the same sensitivity....89db lets say...
 
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Well, wrap your brain around the fact that in the real world a 10" magnet is ALOT smaller than a 15" magnet.
most manufatures use the same motor on the 10-12-and 15" models.. so no, the magnet is not smaller..

why do you always go my magnet size? ever heard of Neo ones? check out the RE MX12"-15"-18" the magnets the size of your hand.
 
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