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possible head gasket??

SVT#4967 said:
If it were different circumstances and it was in an easier spot I would go with the clean, run and see if it leaks some more. But I honestly dont feel I can get in there and clean that area, atleast not good enough. I also think this is a slow leak, so how long will I need to let it idle cause I'm not driving the car until I fix this and a couple other problems (brake job, leaking power steering lines).

I can see why some things are easier with the engine out of the car, I come from Honda's and I am used to open engine bays (I can literally stand on the ground while being in the engine bay between the header and radiator in my Civic), but I dont feel I would need to remove the engine for a head gasket job. Sure it would be easier but I don't feel it justifies pulling the engine at this time.
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I know what you mean by Honda engine bays. My neighbor's Accord has a V6 and there's so much room around it that it makes me weep in comparison to the Contour. Anyway, your leak likely took months or years to get to where it is. Who knows how long it will take to appear again if you clean the area up. Fix the other problems first and then drive the car. If there is a leak, it will show up much quicker that way. I'd still try and get my fingers in there to see if there's any oil at the valve cover gasket seal were I you.
Karl
 
The second rule of fixing leaks is to fix what you find on top, clean it up, run it and see if there is anything else.

Remember, we haven't had problems with oil only leaks from the headgaskets on our cars. Headgasket failure in general is rare (at least in the US, our Mondeo brethren have reported a few).

Gravity raises hell in pinpointing leaks. Start with the leak you found on top. Most likely that will be the end of it.
 
haha, if I showed you a picture of my Civic engine bay you'd probably freak, it has a lot more space than even an Accord.

I'm pretty sure the valve cover gaskets are leaking a bit since it is grimy and oily around the valve cover in more than just the rear but nothing that I can see, as of right now, that indicates as much of a leak as you see in that picture and thats why I figured taking it apart to get a better view would be a possible way to go.

So a oil only leak at the head gasket is unlikely without other problem(s) being present? The car drove fine from what I remember, no hesitation, good smooth idle, didn't notice any burning of oil or coolant out the exhaust. Of course I could start it up and re-smell for that quite easily.

yeah, I hate oil leaks. Just finished fixing my girls 95 Jimmy, the remote oil lines were leaking again. Said screw it and spent a little extra on parts and replaced the rubber with stainless steel braided in hopes that it'll hold up much better and be an easier/cheaper future fix if needed.

Part of why I am wanting to get this all taken care of now is because I will be selling my Civic once the SVT is back on the road. Bought a house and don't feel like paying for insurance on two cars right now or for maintaining both cars.
 
Big Jim said:
....

Remember, we haven't had problems with oil only leaks from the headgaskets on our cars. Headgasket failure in general is rare (at least in the US, our Mondeo brethren have reported a few).
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"It seems every high mileage 2.5L I work on has leaking head gaskets (leak oil at the oil galley on each head). Seems a common problem and this one had the same problem - Ran into it on every engine build so far".....

The above is a quote from Dom @ FCO in one of his blogs. I am no great fan of his, as he has treated people including me, like s^%& if you disagree with him, but none the less he does see a lot of these engines.
 
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eepals said:
"It seems every high mileage 2.5L I work on has leaking head gaskets (leak oil at the oil galley on each head). Seems a common problem and this one had the same problem - Ran into it on every engine build so far".....

The above is a quote from Dom @ FCO in one of his blogs. I am no great fan of his, as he has treated people including like s^%& if you disagree with him, but none the less he does see a lot of these engines.
Click to expand...

Does he have pictures? Where is the "oil galley"? Sorry but I dont know.

Also, do you have a link to this FCO website? I have googled for it but can't find it, I must suck at the internet :shrug:
 
Also, I got out and started the car yesterday. Let it idle for an hour and a half.

While it was idling I was looking around the rear valve cover, exhaust manifold, etc. While parts of the valve cover do have some oily gritty spots their is no dripping or running from the valve cover down, I got a good look yesterday while it was light out. The top of the exhaust manifold is dry on top and the head above the exhaust manifold is dry.

So I climbed under the car (with it running, on jack stands, and it gets really hot when those fans kick on) to look back up at where I took the picture. I held a telescoping mirror up there to look at it from various angles. The oil or whatever you see in the pictures is only there, nowhere else. The oil only goes up about half way on the exhaust port nearest the driver side but only a very small amount just along the edge of the flange and the exhaust tube. The other two exhaust ports have a black burnt streak (which can be seen in the picture in my first post) under them on the block. The oil is mostly under the exhaust port nearest the driver side and it also looks like it's on the gasket below the exhaust flange between the middle exhaust port and the one nearest the driver side (can also be seen in the picture). I know I will sound crazy but I have to ask so please just give me an honest answer, is there any way oil can make it's way into the exhaust ports without being burnt and then leak out of the exhaust manifold? I know it sounds crazy but I swear that is what it looks like. I wish I could get pictures to show but it's way to tight to get the camera in there. Is there any other way that oil could get there? I was going to touch it and see how it felt but it was too hot while I was looking at it from the car running so I let it sit but didn't get a chance to get back out there later that night. It looks wet but it's appear to be running or anything.

Also, while the car was running I smelled the exhaust to see if it smelled like burnt oil or coolant. The exhaust was most visible while the car was warming up, but once it got to operating temp and the fans kicked in it's wasn't bad. I did notice the exhaust was more visible when the fans weren't running and almost non-existent when the fans where running, is that normal? I assume some visible exhaust out the tailpipe is normal as it felt hotter than it was outside, correct? I just want to make sure I'm not being over paranoid. Once the car was at operating temp I smelled the exhaust and it smelled like, well, exhaust. I couldn't notice any smell of burnt oil or the sweet smell of burnt coolant as it should be noticeable I would think. The exhaust did smell a little different while it was warming up but I assume thats normal or maybe because it hadn't been run in almost a month. The smell during normal operating temp is what I should be concerned about correct?

The car started up and ran fine. There is a screech at start up which I've read is tensioners, it's only at start up when the car is cold and thats it. If I turn the car off and then turn it back on while it's still warm the screech isn't present. I figure I will replace the tensioners when I pull the front engine cover (oil on the bottom of the cover and oil pan, pull it double check the inside).

The car idled well, needle stayed right above the 750 line so around 800 rpm I would say. There were a couple puffs out the exhaust as it was warming up but the needle didn't move so I dont think it was anything.

Any thoughts?
 
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It sounds like it is running fine. There is a lot of water vapor in exhaust of a properly running engine and it is most visible before the exhaust fully warmed.

Now that you know how to inspect the area in question, it would help to clean it up and look again.

Even if there is a head gasket oil leak, that doesn't mean that you are about to have headgasket failure that would allow coolant into the cylinders or loss of compression. If the leaks are minimal, it may not be worth the effort to pull the heads to correct some slight seepage. That would be your call, but remember that it is not an indication of impending catastrophic failure.
 
how many miles are on the car? i may have missed it but i didnt see it mentioned.

if it is high mileage it COULD, although i havent really heard of anyone having this problem on here, be the valve guid seals for the exhaust valves on that cylinder. if they leak just a little bit you can get unburned oil in the exhaust.

the black soot also signifies an exhaust leak. either one of the pipes on the manifold or the gasket is leaking. if the gasket is bad whatever oil may be in the exhaust could find its way out.

just some other suggestions that hadnt been mentioned.
 
Big Jim said:
It sounds like it is running fine. There is a lot of water vapor in exhaust of a properly running engine and it is most visible before the exhaust fully warmed.
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well thats good to hear cause that is exactly what I experienced yesterday.

hmm.. part of me would rather do it now while I still have my second car rather than wait for it to go and be unprepared. But on the other side I would rather spend that money on my house getting some things finished before winter. decisions decisions...
 
The car has ~130k miles and it's the original motor/trans.

So, hypothetically, if it were the valve guide seals what is involved in replacing those? I haven't looked in my manual yet, will have to look when I get home from work.

I kinda figured the black soot would be a header gasket.

Something else I noticed is towards the bottom of the oil leak is looks very similar to the black soot under the other two exhaust ports. You can sorta see what I mean in the following picture.

May not be anything but I figured I would note it.
 
SVT#4967 said:
Does he have pictures? Where is the "oil galley"? Sorry but I dont know.
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Here is a picture of my engine. Had 107,500 miles when I took it apart.
The oil gallery is pictured on the lower left, see the clean oil sitting in the recess of the block. This is the bank (#2) closest to the radiator. This leak was a trickle for years that would drip down the block through the webbing bosses that the A/C compressor bolts to and burn up on the y-pipe. This didn't drip on to the ground until the last month or so before I did the job. I finally got sick of the constant smell of the oil and pulled the engine. Did my first oil change since the gaskets and it is nice to be rid of the oil mess.
This is my first picture I posted, bear with me till I figure out how to use the Paint feature I have.


IMG
P1010111.jpg
 
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P1010106Paint2.jpg




Here is the firewall bank side with the head gasket installed. The yellowed area furthest to the left is the oil pressure port. The gasket has a bult in restrictor port. Not the best picture but the lighter yellow circled area, I only circled one (there are 5 cutout areas in total). They seem to me, to be a path for the oil to leak out easier.
I don't know why these areas aren't fully covered by the gasket?
 
thanks for the pictures... in the second one, the lighter yellow circled area looks to be the same area in which I have oil at.

The more and more I think about it I think it's best if I just do it now so I dont have anything to worry about. That way I know it fixed.

I looked at my service manual yesterday and the short procedure on how to replace the valve guide seals. It stated I need a slide hammer, special remover and special installer. The slide hammer I can rent at autozone but what about the remover and installer? Do I need those special tools or is there something I can use instead? Any tips? Just asking now incase I find that they should be replaced once I start tearing into it.

I think I'll make some calls today and see how much all the gaskets and parts are going to cost me. Any suggestions on places I should look for these parts that have good service and good prices?
 
ok, so I called Team Ford Parts and spoke with Bill Jenkins. Got prices on everything, just waiting for an email with all the part number so I can go onto their website and find/order all the parts. I couldn't seem to locate everything on the website so I called them.

Now, I'm just needing to know what I need to replace the valve seals? Any tips on how to replace the valve seals would be good as well. I have my manual that shows the steps and some special tools but I dont know where I would find those or if there is something else I can use instead.
 
You may be able to rent or borrow the tools from an auto parts store or an automotive machine shop. They probably will not be the Ford specific tools, but rather a generic valve spring compressor. There are a variety of such tools, and you need one that will give you access to compress the valve spring and remove the valve keepers.

You could probably also purchase such tools from a variety of sources, including tool trucks, parts stores, and on-line sources. Just make sure that it specifically says it will work on your engine.
 
Well, I'm a Sears (Craftsman) person simply because of the warranty and the ease of returning them to the many stores located in the area.

So I was thinking about ggoing to Sears today and looking at the valve spring compressors. Does this one look like it would work?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...hanics+Tools&sName=Automotive+Specialty+Tools
or maybe this one?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...hanics+Tools&sName=Automotive+Specialty+Tools

Doesn't have to be Craftsman, like I said I just prefer to buy them because of warranty and ease of return/exchange. If those won't work, do you have another you could recommend? Or something I should be looking for when checking them out, to make sure they will work for my car.

Keep in mind the head will be separated from the block and out of the car while doing this. I know some can be used while still mounted in the car and some are only for when the head is separated from the block.

Also, any tips on the valve seals? Those are what I'm most worried about at this moment.

But any input on special tools I'll be needing is welcomed. I do have a good assortment of tools that I've been collecting over the years from doing work on my Honda's and my girls car.
 
well, the cams would be removed anyways wouldn't they? I thought I remember reading the cam are removed before pulling the head, maybe I was reading some other part of the manual. :shrug:

but in any case, do you have any suggestions on which tool might work?

I may just have to wait to get one until I get atleast the valve covers off to get a better idea of what I'm working with. But I'm just trying to get myself all lined up before I start as to minimize any possible hang-ups while doing all this.
 
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