hylix
CEG'er
I know what most of you are thinking, based on what my serch efforts have turned up so far.. "Why would anyone want E85?" Please hold back the flames guys, I'm looking for info, not a beating :help: :crazy:
Can someone that knows more about the Tuning aspect of E85 shed some light on this for me? What would be the pitfalls of tuning for it, and in the process of building a performance oriented car, would it be worth the hassle? I like the additional octane especially for boosted applications. Dyno tuning would likely be a must, however, that's not very different than tuning for other major modifications.
has anyone here actually tuned for e85 and made apropriate modifications to support it? any success stories?
I recall someone on here with a boosted Honda that seen big gains from tuning for E85, cant find the post, however, i didn't look very hard...
I hear about decreased performance, damage to seals, fuel lines and gaskets, and heat issues all in an attempt to deter anyone from using it, and as such I suspect that conversation will turn to the direction of other supporting modifications for using E85 (or why not to), but that is for other discussion, Here I am interested in what it would take to tune for it.
The following does not pertain to tuning, but I feel it's necessary to point out the the pro-cons conversation that people will want to get into regarding E85 in order to slow the off topic comments.
Mods, Please feel free to move this thread or delete the following.
My googleing has turned up a lot of information about E85 as opposed to 100% ethanol.
It seems that most of the 'Tribal knowledge' on these forums is pertaining to running 100% ethanol (based on the caveats people mention), and the experiences of others seem to be only filling up with E85, with out any supporting modification at all.
Here are some ethanol related complaints I have found, and their respective pro-E85 rebuttal (not my opinion or educated stance on the matter, just regurgation of my research).
-100% ethanol will dry out rubber and damage cork gaskets.
+E85's 15% gasoline seems to keep rubber lubricated, although will still damage cork gaskets. The reduction of water content in the recent distilling processes also reduces acids that would otherwise be present to damage other components.
-The water content of 'old' ethanol would rust steel lines.
+There are a lot of claims that the newer processes for distilling ethanol keeps it 'dryer', even as dry or better than gasoline.
-Ethanol has lower energy content than gasoline
+E85 is a higher octane, around 105, giving opportunity to tune for more power, particularly with boost or high compression.
-Ethanol will cause premature heat related damage
+E85 apparently burns cooler, not sure where the heat issues are coming from.
-It takes more ethanol to complete a combustion cycle, defeating the cost savings of purchasing it.
+There is a 15-5% or less millage loss with E85 with a properly tuned (flexfuel) vehicle, and 50-30% with out the tune, but around my part of town its about a $0.55-$1.00 cheaper than 91 octane fuel (premium here at high altitude) or about 20%+ cheaper meaning that it may be a possible cost savings or at least a wash.
Some (likely biased) Resorces for e85 info:
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/resource/facts/engine/
http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths
Can someone that knows more about the Tuning aspect of E85 shed some light on this for me? What would be the pitfalls of tuning for it, and in the process of building a performance oriented car, would it be worth the hassle? I like the additional octane especially for boosted applications. Dyno tuning would likely be a must, however, that's not very different than tuning for other major modifications.
has anyone here actually tuned for e85 and made apropriate modifications to support it? any success stories?
I recall someone on here with a boosted Honda that seen big gains from tuning for E85, cant find the post, however, i didn't look very hard...
I hear about decreased performance, damage to seals, fuel lines and gaskets, and heat issues all in an attempt to deter anyone from using it, and as such I suspect that conversation will turn to the direction of other supporting modifications for using E85 (or why not to), but that is for other discussion, Here I am interested in what it would take to tune for it.
The following does not pertain to tuning, but I feel it's necessary to point out the the pro-cons conversation that people will want to get into regarding E85 in order to slow the off topic comments.
Mods, Please feel free to move this thread or delete the following.
My googleing has turned up a lot of information about E85 as opposed to 100% ethanol.
It seems that most of the 'Tribal knowledge' on these forums is pertaining to running 100% ethanol (based on the caveats people mention), and the experiences of others seem to be only filling up with E85, with out any supporting modification at all.
Here are some ethanol related complaints I have found, and their respective pro-E85 rebuttal (not my opinion or educated stance on the matter, just regurgation of my research).
-100% ethanol will dry out rubber and damage cork gaskets.
+E85's 15% gasoline seems to keep rubber lubricated, although will still damage cork gaskets. The reduction of water content in the recent distilling processes also reduces acids that would otherwise be present to damage other components.
-The water content of 'old' ethanol would rust steel lines.
+There are a lot of claims that the newer processes for distilling ethanol keeps it 'dryer', even as dry or better than gasoline.
-Ethanol has lower energy content than gasoline
+E85 is a higher octane, around 105, giving opportunity to tune for more power, particularly with boost or high compression.
-Ethanol will cause premature heat related damage
+E85 apparently burns cooler, not sure where the heat issues are coming from.
-It takes more ethanol to complete a combustion cycle, defeating the cost savings of purchasing it.
+There is a 15-5% or less millage loss with E85 with a properly tuned (flexfuel) vehicle, and 50-30% with out the tune, but around my part of town its about a $0.55-$1.00 cheaper than 91 octane fuel (premium here at high altitude) or about 20%+ cheaper meaning that it may be a possible cost savings or at least a wash.
Some (likely biased) Resorces for e85 info:
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/resource/facts/engine/
http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths