Stylin's full-3L 98.5 SVT install thread

[Beans]

NICE! That looks a real clean install, good luck.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

Tha being said, if it's over your head, Buckeye over on FCO sells a plug n play COP adapter for $99 each.

yeah, the same guy that fed me misinformation about how coil wiring was so my build would fail. real charmer that guy. took him over a month to ship a stock svt air box.

 

[mosh]

That motor looks sweet!!!!!!...reminds me of mine. I drool regularly...even when I'm not driving.

Hey one bit of constructive advice as I do have the same setup: use a 65mm TB!

If you just crank the adjuster screw to make it idle at about 1000rpm it works fine without IAC.

Besides a little extra performance the real reason to use it is the smooth and predictable throttle acutation (if you use a 65mm TB that you have converted to use your SVT throttle shaft). The stock 3L TB has a different "gearing"...the amount of throttle opening for the amount of foot input is more drastic, making it feel really odd and sometimes jerky in stop and go traffic.

This is not "mandatory" but I've been driving around for 6 months with a couple of different setups and have concluded that this is the best.

If you do this, two other performance ideas:

1. Widen the manifold mouth to match the 65mm.....easy to do as it's plastic.
2. Inside the manifold, saw off the egr tube as much to left was you can, then pinch it closed to allow just a smidgen of flow. (Assuming you have kept EGR as I have). This things is potentially a flow blocker.

 

[TRicker]

running a 65mm tb caused a leaning condition on my car at low throttle, and let off. it idled fine though. i suggest optimizing the stock 3L TB and running the shaft from your SVT on it. that'll keep the cam smooth and not give it the touchy feeling everyone hates. half shaft and thin the plate on the tb that's plenty big and i personally don't suggest trying to port the plastic manifold theres not much room between the port size and the built in gasket plus making smooth plastic rough is a bad idea. i did delete my egr and i cut off the egr tube on the inside of the manifold that thing is a big restriction

 

[mosh]

The switch to an SVT shaft actually sounds like a good idea. Additionally I had seen a guy on the net who specializes in boring out your stock TB and fitting a new custom plate all for about $150-$175. This could make it about 62-63mm maybe. Really sanitary too.

At this point the 65mm works for me and it's "free". I'm still running 19# Injectors with a program that assumes 17# in a 2.5L. When I dynoed my old 2.5L with the same injectors and program I was always rich, so I've just assumed that I'll squeek by with the 3L until I get a new tune.

To Stylin: I'd focus on getting it running and idling well, enjoy the newfound torque and enjoy the awesome kick at mid-range. Then in a month or so start messing around with this stuff. The only gripe I've had with my 04 3L is that the motor does not have as sweet a wail as an SVT cammed motor with the aluminum manifold....sounds fine, just different.

 

[Stylin55_oh]

That motor looks sweet!!!!!!...reminds me of mine. I drool regularly...even when I'm not driving..

Thanks i felt it came out pretty nice myself.

..(Assuming you have kept EGR as I have)...

I deleted the EGR. I figured that removing it would improve flow and make the build easier at the same time.

i suggest optimizing the stock 3L TB and running the shaft from your SVT on it. that'll keep the cam smooth and not give it the touchy feeling everyone hates. half shaft and thin the plate on the tb that's plenty big

I didn't realize i could switch the TB shaft. I modifed the two TB mounting brackets together and was just planning on running the 3.0L TB with the half throttle issue.

To Stylin: I'd focus on getting it running and idling well, enjoy the newfound torque and enjoy the awesome kick at mid-range. Then in a month or so start messing around with this stuff.

My plan is just that, i plan on getting it running saturday and ironing out kinks over time. I see your motor had COP as well. Is there any real issues with running it untuned? I'm going to get some dyno and tuning time eventually but wanted all the bugs worked out first but i was a little afraid of driving the untuned motor.

The only gripe I've had with my 04 3L is that the motor does not have as sweet a wail as an SVT cammed motor with the aluminum manifold....sounds fine, just different.

I'm hoping the MSDS headers and the bassani exhause the magnaflow mufflers helps this out

 

[mosh]

My COP has been flawless. So this seems like a low risk way to go.

I'll eventually get a real tune. I did just pass an emissions test (easily) last month and I'll post the data at some point. Since I'm OBD1 I need to actually get sniffed.

Your motor will still sound different...I have a trubendz 2.5 magnaflow system, ypipe w/ magnaflow cat and msds headers.....had all this on my SVT 2.5L and Ported 3L motor too. It just has a different intake sound between the different cam tuning and the plastic manifold.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

I modifed the two TB mounting brackets together and was just planning on running the 3.0L TB with the half throttle issue.

thats what I did too, is the half throttle issue why I feel like I dont have all the power I used to and can't hit the rev limiter? should I space out the bracket so the throttle is more taunt?

I'm hoping the MSDS headers and the bassani exhause the magnaflow mufflers helps this out

:drool:

 

[Stylin55_oh]

I'm almost positive my coil pack is wired right but my 3.0L is running like the firing order is wrong. Any advice on what else to check.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

are you running the 2.5 coil or the taurus coil?

 

[Stylin55_oh]

3.0L not starting

3.0L not starting

My 3.0L is installed and with the new starter installed and the ignition power problem solved, the car is FINALLY cranking over. Buuuut, it sounds as though it's extremely off timing. I'm 99% sure the pulse wheel is correct (i followed the pictures and double checked) so I'm thinking it's a sensor issue. im using a self made COP harness therefore there was a lot of rewiring. This could have let to accidental cross wiring sensors or a bad connection on a sensor. I believe I used 2.5L crank and cam sensors. Can anyone suggest a good way to check if the sensors are reading properly?? Also what other things should i check??

... I havent actually seen this phenomena because the ignition wiring problem was fixed by a friend while i wasnt around. i'll know more the next time i'm home and get a chance to work on the car (i work out of town)

 

[Stylin55_oh]

I fixed my previous post that was incomplete. I blame it on the blackberry

 

[SoopaCooga]

Hey one bit of constructive advice as I do have the same setup: use a 65mm TB! If you just crank the adjuster screw to make it idle at about 1000rpm it works fine without IAC.

Besides a little extra performance the real reason to use it is the smooth and predictable throttle acutation (if you use a 65mm TB that you have converted to use your SVT throttle shaft). The stock 3L TB has a different "gearing"...the amount of throttle opening for the amount of foot input is more drastic, making it feel really odd and sometimes jerky in stop and go traffic.

This is not "mandatory" but I've been driving around for 6 months with a couple of different setups and have concluded that this is the best.

If you do this, two other performance ideas:

1. Widen the manifold mouth to match the 65mm.....easy to do as it's plastic.
2. Inside the manifold, saw off the egr tube as much to left was you can, then pinch it closed to allow just a smidgen of flow. (Assuming you have kept EGR as I have). This things is potentially a flow blocker.

Mosh, thanks for posting! You and Tricker have convinced me to get my 3L TB modded. The current throttle is *so* touchy! I don't remember seeing you on here before. How long ago did you do your swap?

Stylin, best o' luck to ya. Anytime you get stuck, just post on here. These guys are pretty good about helping out.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

wouldn't the most obvious problem with bad firing order and a DIY COP be that you swapped some wires in your harness or something?

thats sort of what happened to mine, though I was only swapping in the ordinary taurus coil.

I'll say this from experience, if it's firing ridiculous and not starting, your probably damaging the bottom end.

 

[Stylin55_oh]

wouldn't the most obvious problem with bad firing order and a DIY COP be that you swapped some wires in your harness or something?

thats sort of what happened to mine, though I was only swapping in the ordinary taurus coil.

I'll say this from experience, if it's firing ridiculous and not starting, your probably damaging the bottom end.

I havent kept the motor running due to the horrible timing so i feel safe in assuming no damage. The first thing im going to check is the firing order for the exact reasons you stated above. I'm hoping i can use a scan tool to force the computer to fire a specific coil in order check to ensure the correct location between what the computer thinks is 1 and what i think is 1. If anyone knows of a better plan let me know. Also i wired the firing order the following way:

| 1 2 3 |
|-------trans|
| 4 5 6 |

 

[KAOS_3.0]

that is correct for the sparkplug/coil locations, but if you have the coils wired like that it's wrong.

I think 4-3, 2-6, and 5-1 are they way they are paired up from memory, so you want those sets of two signal wires going to the corresponding wire on the 'tour harness.

pull all the plugs until you hunt down which cylinder(s) are missing. if you see black plugs in like 1 and 4, you miss paired the coils, if you see like 4, 3, 5, and 1 then you've swapped two signal wires.

by the way, just curious, which way do you have the pairs of coils wired to the signal wires? parallel or series?
('m planning on building a little plug/play COP after I get the new one in there)

 

[SoopaCooga]

that is correct for the sparkplug/coil locations, but if you have the coils wired like that it's wrong.

I think 4-3, 2-6, and 5-1 are they way they are paired up from memory, so you want those sets of two signal wires going to the corresponding wire on the 'tour harness.

The Haynes manual states the connections to the cylinders from the coil are as follows:

COIL
4-6-5
3-2-1

ENGINE
1-2-3
4-5-6

 

[Stylin55_oh]

3.0L is alive!

3.0L is alive!

The car is alive! we had two of the coil wires switched so 4 of the 6 cylinders were not functioning correctly. here's an unfinished picture of the engine bay. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[montrese04]

i'm jealous, why wont my 3l work. happy you got it going. you are now on your way to 3l enlightenment

 

[KAOS_3.0]

shyt man, thats exactly what I did with my 02 taurus pack swap, I really hope you didn't run it long. that exact problem is what ruined my bottom end.

if you hear something that sounds like a stuck lifter, for the love of god, drop the oil pan and inspect/replace the rod bearings. you can barely recognize a rod knock in these.

[edit]

diggin the camber plates dude