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Brakes, again

2

2000SE

Veteran CEG'er
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
866
Location
Delaware
So back to my brakes after a no go on new rotors, greased pins and new pads.

Like i said before, when coming to a complete stop, the brake pedal will buzz or hum or jump, depending on the day. It'll do this for around a second and then be over with. Sometimes when letting off the pedal and then going back on it will do it on the upward and downward motion of the pedal.

I already checked the calipers, they depress fine. My dad seems to think that it has something to do with the abs thinking the front brakes are locking up when they are stopping, causing the pedal to jerk around. My only issue with that is that i am unsure if the car even has abs. (2000 SE, 4 cylinder, rear drums) Nothing seems to be giving me a clear indication of abs or not. (Manual says what should be there IF you have abs.)

I've rolled the car to a stop in neutral, so i know it isn't anything transmission related and I've stopped it with the parking brake alone, so i know it isn't the rear.

Any help is appreciated.
 
*raises hand* OOOOH OHH!! OOH OHH!! PICK ME PICK ME!!!

Flush your brake system.

if its an ABS issue, your ABS light will be on/flashing.


as for your parking break *buzzer* doesnt matter if you stopped the car with the parking brake, it still could be the rear brakes. The parking brake is controlled by a stand alone mechanical brake cable, it has nothing to do with the system atached to your brake pedal.

If that first suggestion doesnt work, monitor your brake fluid, do you ever have to add any? Does your ebrake light randomly come on when you arent using the ebrake?

You also might have a blown brake cylinder in the rear, which basically is a small piston with o-rings to seal the brake fluid in, whenever you push the brake pedal, the piston goes out and applies the shoes to the drum, when the seals on this piston blow the piston doesnt do anything anymore, and it just leaks fluid, which might cause a funny feeling brake pedal.
 
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Hello. My car did the same exact thing! First off to see if you have ABS just turn the ignition switch to the on position. The lights will illuminate on the dash (brake light, oil psi light etc.) if you have ABS this light will be illuminated. After a couple of seconds these lights go off as normal. From what you describe you have an ABS problem. Check the reluctor ring on the CV shafts, both drivers and passenger side. Where the CV shaft enters the wheel hub assembly, by the balljoint, there is a toothed ring called a reluctor ring. These rings, on both the drivers side and passenger side CV shafts, were broken on my car. I had the same symptoms you describe with NO check engine light! I replaced both CV shafts and the problem went away.

The reluctor rings on both my CV shafts were broken, they had cracked and seperated leaving a larger space between a couple of the teeth. At low speeds of around 3 or 4mph when braking the ABS module was tricked into thinking there was a wheel locking up, thus activating the ABS, which is what you are feeling/hearing.
 
Sorry Alias, no dice there. Both the rear brakes are functioning fine, but i will be replacing the shoes and drums just because of the fact they are old. Fluid levels are fine and haven't moved in the 3 months i have owned it.

When i was putting on my new rotors i had a decent view of the gears which you mention, saturn and they didn't seem to be worn, but I will definitely check again.

Another note, this started to occur after i put 17's on the car. Could something like the abs module need to be recalibrated?
 
CustomX157 said:
...i am unsure if the car even has abs. (2000 SE, 4 cylinder, rear drums) Nothing seems to be giving me a clear indication of abs or not. (Manual says what should be there IF you have abs.)

I've rolled the car to a stop in neutral, so i know it isn't anything transmission related and I've stopped it with the parking brake alone, so i know it isn't the rear.

Any help is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Contours with rear drums were not outfitted with ABS.
 
My car is a 2000 Contour SE 4cyl automatic with rear drums AND ABS....yes ABS! Please check out my reply above as to what is most likely wrong with this vehicle.

The wheel size will not affect the performance of ABS.

Check those reluctor rings. They don't "wear" but they sometimes crack in between a couple of the teeth causing a larger gap between a couple of the teeth. You will have to check the entire ring, so you may have to move your vehicle forward a few times in order to see the entire ring.
 
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CustomX157, it would be nice to know where you live, but your signature is silent on the matter. The reason it would be nice to know is that if you live in an area that uses a lot of salt on the roads during the winter to control ice you are more likely to have problems with the tone rings (reluctor rings or sensor rings). When the shaft rusts even a little, it expands ever so little, and causes the ring to split, as it is intended only to trigger the ABS, not have the strength to keep from splitting when expanded.

Check your tone rings. Even a hairline crack will mess up the ABS.
 
SaturnLvr said:
My car is a 2000 Contour SE 4cyl automatic with rear drums AND ABS....yes ABS! Please check out my reply above as to what is most likely wrong with this vehicle.

....
Click to expand...
Hmmm. This is also strange. I thought they only went with V6s in the 2000 model year. Oh well, I guess, I learn something new every day.
 
First off, I'm from Delaware so, not much salt around here. Yes, it has abs as well, or i have a fake light in my dash, which is doubtful. I'll let you guys know as soon as i check out those rings. If they happen to be worn, would i need to replace the entire axle, or is it possible just to replace the cv's or even just those rings?
 
I had the same thoughts as you. As far as I could find out you cannot replace just the reluctor rings. You have to replace the entire shaft or the CV joint. It is actually cheaper to just replace the entire shaft. I think I paid around $70 per CV shaft.
 
Where did you happen to get them? Ebay only has one available for abs applications and Bill Jenkins is way more expensive and only certain pieces.
 
A not totally related question:

If the ABS light is constantly lit, how to determine which brake caused this without going to stealership?
 
Have a shop run a scan tool on it and monitor the ABS data stream.........drive around at low speeds and monitor what all 4 ABS speed sensors are reading.......you will likely find that one or more is showing lower that the other two (likely reading 0) when this problem is occuring. This is a common problem on late model Buick Rendezvous. They have a faulty speed sensor/exciter ring on one of the front wheels that actually will drop to 0 mph momentarily whilst you are slowing to a stop causing premature/un-necessary actuation of the ABS system. A good shop will be able to scope the signal on each individual wheel and narrow it down to one wheel in specific and furthermore go on to tell you if its the ABS sensor or a defective/dirty exciter ring.
 
limeyscott said:
Have a shop run a scan tool on it and monitor the ABS data stream.........drive around at low speeds and monitor what all 4 ABS speed sensors are reading.......you will likely find that one or more is showing lower that the other two (likely reading 0) when this problem is occuring. This is a common problem on late model Buick Rendezvous. They have a faulty speed sensor/exciter ring on one of the front wheels that actually will drop to 0 mph momentarily whilst you are slowing to a stop causing premature/un-necessary actuation of the ABS system. A good shop will be able to scope the signal on each individual wheel and narrow it down to one wheel in specific and furthermore go on to tell you if its the ABS sensor or a defective/dirty exciter ring.
Click to expand...

Was that intended for me, or the other guy who asked a question? I'm pretty sure that the abs is only available on the front discs, so that would only be two for them to test. But i could save a bit of money if it is just the sensors rather than the rings, as you mentioned.
 
There are various ways of configuring ABS, but our cars have a four channel system. Each wheel has its own sensor and channel. Rear wheel only ABS is referred to as RABS and it is not nearly as effective as a full ABS. I'm not aware of any system with front ABS only.
 
Yes customX157 that was intended for you. Big Jim, you are correct.....front only ABS does not exist that I know of and would be useless as far as I am concerned (though fun on a wet race track with nothing in the way!!). Rear ABS was typically only found on trucks due to them having a "light back end" and some ford and dodge vans.
 
so basically all of you guys are saying i should most likely take it to a shop so they can figure it out? rats.
 
Check those reluctor rings first. Do a visual check to see if they are cracked anywhere. Check the whole ring on both the drivers side and passengers side. Should take less than 15-20 minutes, including jacking it up etc etc...and of course it won't cost you anything.
 
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