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Wideband o2 questions

D

DocStruthers

Veteran CEG'er
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
864
Can you replace stock o2 sensors with wideband?

Or is a wideband a standalone system? Meaning you have to have a wideband o2 sensor bung welded in and a specific guage capable of reading wideband sensors outputs?

Is a wideband sensor truly worth the money?

I plan to make some heavy mods to my contour so I would assume it is worth the price!

Also, is Bosch a good wideband and traditional o2 sensor manufacturer?

Can anyone recommend certain brands from experience with them?

Thanks!!

:wave:
 
ha. that's the otehr one i was considering. Excellent price AND a guage is included. Really can't beat that. And AEM is obviously good stuff. thamks
 
the wideband sensor will fit in the stock location, however the PCM has no way to hook up to it much less understand its signal so you need to keep the stock sensor in place. this means you need to drill a hole and weld in an extra bung for the wideband. the wideband also must be installed before any cats or the readings you see on the gauge will be worthless.

If arent going to be doing any tuning by yourself, the wideband isnt worth getting. if you are going to spend the time and money to learn how to tune your car and then tune it, then its worth getting. keep in mind that tuning should be the last thing you do.
 
yea I knew that. But that's the thing I don't want to take my car to get dyno tuned for $$$$$$ everytime I change something or want to experiment with different parts.

I plan to learn about tuning it myself. I've been reading about the Apex unit quite a bit and it seems very potent.
 
You can put the sensor in the stock position no problem. Most (if not all) widebands these days have 2 analog outputs. You would scale one of the outputs as a narrowband (stock o2) and scale the other as a wideband to use with your gauge or logging software. Works great!

Whatever you do stay away from the Innovate LC-1 wideband, the ground offset problems are terrible. The LM-2 is MUCH better from what I hear. I have an LM-1 hardwired into my CTS-V and it has been working great for 15k miles. I have one analog output hooked up to my nitrous controler (lean shut off) and one hooked up to my HPtuners pro interface for logging/tuning.

Good luck!
 
DocStruthers said:
yea I knew that. But that's the thing I don't want to take my car to get dyno tuned for $$$$$$ everytime I change something or want to experiment with different parts.

I plan to learn about tuning it myself. I've been reading about the Apex unit quite a bit and it seems very potent.
Click to expand...

You dont have to dyno for every little change.......

But gauges look cool, so go for it.
 
SkullV said:
You can put the sensor in the stock position no problem. Most (if not all) widebands these days have 2 analog outputs. You would scale one of the outputs as a narrowband (stock o2) and scale the other as a wideband to use with your gauge or logging software. Works great!

Whatever you do stay away from the Innovate LC-1 wideband, the ground offset problems are terrible. The LM-2 is MUCH better from what I hear. I have an LM-1 hardwired into my CTS-V and it has been working great for 15k miles. I have one analog output hooked up to my nitrous controler (lean shut off) and one hooked up to my HPtuners pro interface for logging/tuning.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
The AEM WBO2 i was lookin at has 4 leads comin out: power, ground, analog0-5v, and somethin else for loggers I think. is the 0-5V used on our CSVT's? Thanks for your info!!

FIND said:
You dont have to dyno for every little change.......

But gauges look cool, so go for it.
Click to expand...
I know I don't have to buddy but if you want full potential out of your mods then yes, you do! If you do a lot of little changes and have it dynoed you can get some great gains. And i'm not doin JUST for looks. You get the wrong impression a lot. Stop overanalizing threads. THANKS
:nonono:
 
DocStruthers said:
I know I don't have to buddy but if you want full potential out of your mods then yes, you do! If you do a lot of little changes and have it dynoed you can get some great gains. And i'm not doin JUST for looks. You get the wrong impression a lot. Stop overanalizing threads. THANKS
:nonono:
Click to expand...

Change your tampon. I wasnt insinuating anything. I was just saying there is nothing wrong with gauges. They look cool. Go for it.

You get the wrong impression a lot. Stop over-analyzing comments. THANKS
:nonono:
 
DocStruthers said:
The AEM WBO2 i was lookin at has 4 leads comin out: power, ground, analog0-5v, and somethin else for loggers I think. is the 0-5V used on our CSVT's? Thanks for your info!!
Click to expand...

What is the something else for loggers (its either a digital output for a gauge or another 0-5v analog)? In order to simulate a narrowband the PCM will need the 0-5v scaled down to be a narrowband. Directions should come with your kit, or I can help you out when you get it. I would not use an AEM wideband if I were you though (unless you just want something pretty to look at). Either get an Innovate LM-2 or an AFX wideband.
 
FIND said:
Change your tampon. I wasnt insinuating anything. I was just saying there is nothing wrong with gauges. They look cool. Go for it.

You get the wrong impression a lot. Stop over-analyzing comments. THANKS
:nonono:
Click to expand...
Do us all a favor and cancel your account.

SkullV said:
What is the something else for loggers (its either a digital output for a gauge or another 0-5v analog)? In order to simulate a narrowband the PCM will need the 0-5v scaled down to be a narrowband. Directions should come with your kit, or I can help you out when you get it. I would not use an AEM wideband if I were you though (unless you just want something pretty to look at). Either get an Innovate LM-2 or an AFX wideband.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. They are a little expensive but eventually I am sure I will get one. I should get one for each piston. haha have 6 A/F gauges goin. LOL
JK JK. I'm not serious FIND so stfup.
 
I've got the Innovate LM1 in my turbo car. It free air calabrates which is nice. It also has a second analog output that can be programmed for 0-1 volt to mimick the factory narrowband O2 sensor. I got mine new in the box from a dealer that sells on Ebay. If you are interested, I might be able to go through my feedback and find his seller name.
 
SkullV said:
What is the something else for loggers (its either a digital output for a gauge or another 0-5v analog)? In order to simulate a narrowband the PCM will need the 0-5v scaled down to be a narrowband. Directions should come with your kit, or I can help you out when you get it. I would not use an AEM wideband if I were you though (unless you just want something pretty to look at). Either get an Innovate LM-2 or an AFX wideband.
Click to expand...
The AEM UEGO has both a 0-5V analog output (can be scaled on the sensor) from the gauge and a serial data stream output for datalogging.

why do you say not to use the AEM wideband? it works perfectly and comes as a complete kit, you also never need to free air calibrate the sensor either.
 
DocStruthers said:
Do us all a favor and cancel your account.
Click to expand...

I cant cancel my account. I have to stick around to watch for your thread seeking people to donate 25-50 a piece to you buying a wideband.

dumb kid. I told you, quit overreacting, I wasnt saying that a gauge was ANYTHING bad. You are the one that keeps coming up with these threads about all the stuff you want to buy and newb questions that could be answered with proper application of the search button.

crap, if this is how you react when I was being nice to you, I better call the suicide watch line in case I ever get mean.
 
striker2 said:
The AEM UEGO has both a 0-5V analog output (can be scaled on the sensor) from the gauge and a serial data stream output for datalogging.

why do you say not to use the AEM wideband? it works perfectly and comes as a complete kit, you also never need to free air calibrate the sensor either.
Click to expand...

Why do you feel that it is GOOD to never free air calibrate the sensor? You need to free air calibrate in order for things to stay accurate. The reason that the AEM is no good is that it is has no software to scale it to your datalogging/tuning software, you can really only use it as a gauge. Like I said, it's nice to look at, easy to hook up, and provides decent monitoring if you are just watching your afr. You will not however find any professional or hardcore tuners using AEM widebands.

Check this out:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/FM_WB_Shootout.pdf

The AFX wideband I am talking about is NOT the one in the test by the way. No matter what wideband you go with, get rid of the craptastic Fosch sensor and get an NGK sensor.
 
SkullV said:
Why do you feel that it is GOOD to never free air calibrate the sensor? You need to free air calibrate in order for things to stay accurate. The reason that the AEM is no good is that it is has no software to scale it to your datalogging/tuning software, you can really only use it as a gauge. Like I said, it's nice to look at, easy to hook up, and provides decent monitoring if you are just watching your afr. You will not however find any professional or hardcore tuners using AEM widebands.

Check this out:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/FM_WB_Shootout.pdf

The AFX wideband I am talking about is NOT the one in the test by the way. No matter what wideband you go with, get rid of the craptastic Fosch sensor and get an NGK sensor.
Click to expand...
First, that link is worthless since you have to be a member to get to the second page and see the results, since I am not and have no desire to be a member (as im sure a lot of others are the same way) of FordMuscle, you'll have to do something else with it.

Second, the AEM sensors are individually calibrated and use a resistor integrated to the connector body. this means you dont have to recalibrate a new sensor every time you remove or replace it.

Third, you can scale the 0-5 volt analog output for either datalogging or for use with an engine management system. the serial data stream gets displayed as an A/F ratio just like it does on the gauge screen.

hardcore tuners will have their own separate sensor (that are also usually calibrated the same way as the AEM sensor) that is connected directly to their dyno or tuning software. now many vehicle owners do their own tuning, so them having the gauge is pretty useless anyways (other than to keep an eye on it in case something changes)
 
striker2 said:
First, that link is worthless since you have to be a member to get to the second page and see the results, since I am not and have no desire to be a member (as im sure a lot of others are the same way) of FordMuscle, you'll have to do something else with it.

Second, the AEM sensors are individually calibrated and use a resistor integrated to the connector body. this means you dont have to recalibrate a new sensor every time you remove or replace it.

Third, you can scale the 0-5 volt analog output for either datalogging or for use with an engine management system. the serial data stream gets displayed as an A/F ratio just like it does on the gauge screen.

hardcore tuners will have their own separate sensor (that are also usually calibrated the same way as the AEM sensor) that is connected directly to their dyno or tuning software. now many vehicle owners do their own tuning, so them having the gauge is pretty useless anyways (other than to keep an eye on it in case something changes)
Click to expand...

Go do some reading on the HPtuners and EFIlive forums and you will have a better understanding of why not to go with an AEM setup. If you like it though, and it works for your needs then that is all that matters.
 
SkullV said:
Go do some reading on the HPtuners and EFIlive forums and you will have a better understanding of why not to go with an AEM setup. If you like it though, and it works for your needs then that is all that matters.
Click to expand...
after some basic searching on HPtuners I havent seen anybody say anything bad about the AEM, lots of people recommending it or the Innovate setup actually.

I did however find this, its talking about that test you linked to earlier (the article also states the AEM doesnt have a way to datalog which is incorrect, just need a laptop or can be hooked up to the datalogging device of your choice). The AEM is also now $100 cheaper than when that test was done.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21019&highlight=AEM+UEGO


All im trying to say is that AEM is more than just a set of flashing lights. it does its job exactly as its supposed to, and for the price its hard to beat.
 
striker2 said:
after some basic searching on HPtuners I havent seen anybody say anything bad about the AEM, lots of people recommending it or the Innovate setup actually.

I did however find this, its talking about that test you linked to earlier (the article also states the AEM doesnt have a way to datalog which is incorrect, just need a laptop or can be hooked up to the datalogging device of your choice). The AEM is also now $100 cheaper than when that test was done.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21019&highlight=AEM+UEGO


All im trying to say is that AEM is more than just a set of flashing lights. it does its job exactly as its supposed to, and for the price its hard to beat.
Click to expand...


I think what they were getting at is that all the other widebands come with datalogging software.
 
FIND said:
I cant cancel my account. I have to stick around to watch for your thread seeking people to donate 25-50 a piece to you buying a wideband.

dumb kid. I told you, quit overreacting, I wasnt saying that a gauge was ANYTHING bad. You are the one that keeps coming up with these threads about all the stuff you want to buy and newb questions that could be answered with proper application of the search button.

crap, if this is how you react when I was being nice to you, I better call the suicide watch line in case I ever get mean.
Click to expand...
:nonono: just shut the f*ck up. Seriously. You don't get it.
 
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