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What the hell?!?!

B

Big Daddy Kane

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
1,952
Location
Rockenhausen Germany
Ok, so I'm getting fed up with my SVT... nothing but hard-to-fix problems! :mad:

Recently did the UIM/LIM cleaning. While they were soaking, I put headers on it and cleaned the TB and IAC/EGR valves as well as putting in 3 new O2 sensors (had 1 new one already). Wouldn't idle at all and had a bad misfire after, ended up being the exhaust hose off the DPFE. Idled really high after that, ended up determining that it was the IAC causing high idle.

Anyway, I do not have access to a code scanner, but I have a sneaky suspicion on what the CEL is on for... Now my HEGO fuse (20A #13 under hood) is blowing. Unplugged the 3 sensors I could get to, still blowing. Gonna check the 4th sensor and it's wiring when I change the fuel pump (maybe this weekend).

So techincally, the car has no O2 sensors ATM.

Unplugging the IAC, idle will drop down to 500-ish RPM and stalls a lot. Plug the IAC and it will instantly jump to 2500RPM and hold for 2-3 minutes, then drop to 1000-1500RPM. Throttle will hang wherever you let off at, even at 5k RPM! Drops after the 2-3 minutes. At any time, unplugging the IAC brings it below 1000RPM, so it's definitely the computer telling it to rev up.

Got some carb cleaner and sprayed it around the UIM/LIM and vaccum hose areas, no apparent vacuum leaks.

My big question is... would the car not having any O2 sensors cause the computer to revert to mega-"throttle hang" mode for emissions? :shrug:
 
I don't even want to guess want kind of shiz will happen with 02 unplugged. PCM will go into WTF mode for sure and do all kinds of crazy things. Why don't you do one thing at a time? I'm thinking your issues are installer error.
 
todras said:
I don't even want to guess want kind of shiz will happen with 02 unplugged. PCM will go into WTF mode for sure and do all kinds of crazy things. Why don't you do one thing at a time? I'm thinking your issues are installer error.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm sure they are too... but it's driving me nuts!

I just wanted to see if not having O2 sensors causes the hang, since the how to on the main page says it's for emissions.
 
i think the bank 2 O2 sensors don't make difference, while bank 1 are needed. and yeah, always do one thing at a time!!! i learned the hard way.
 
Oh, and the one thing at a time... I don't have a garage, so I have to go and spend a day at the auto skills hobby shop where I rent a stall and/or lift to do work on the car myself.

Doing the headers/UIM and LIM cleaning took all day, ended up being $90 usage time on a lift.

That is why I didn't do one thing at a time.
 
Having no o2 sensors hooked up will not cause high idle, it will go into limp mode and run off pre-set tables in the pcm.
The only way you are going to keep popping fuses is if you have a short somewhere, check your wiring. When you do multiple things at one time you have no way of knowing what happened or what went wrong and makes it much harder to diagnose. Get a scanner!!!
 
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Do you have a K&N or other air filter that uses Oil? If so your MAS air flow sensor is probably fouled. I bought an SVT new in 2000 and installed a K&N. After I cleaned it I started having throttle hang problems. Did not matter what RPM or speed. They replaced the EGR valve twice. The third Stealership replaced the MAS Air flow and recommended I go back to the factory filter. Once I did I never had a throttle hang issue again.

I also Dynoed the car and found that there was a 2HP wheel difference between the factory and K&N. 5hp between factory and No air filter. I decided that the problems I encountered were not worth 2Whp.
 
For a 20 amp fuse to blow all the time and still blowing with sensors unplugged you must have a pinched wire/harness somewhere.There's nothing else along that line so it will probably be pretty easy to find.
If you want to be sure before looking around just unplug sensors,pull out the fuse
and probe between output of the fuse and engine block gnd and chassis gnd
and circuit should be open.You can also check for a short in wiring and probe
between wiring with all unplugged and should be open as well.
 
2000SilverSVT said:
Do you have a K&N or other air filter that uses Oil? If so your MAS air flow sensor is probably fouled. I bought an SVT new in 2000 and installed a K&N. After I cleaned it I started having throttle hang problems. Did not matter what RPM or speed. They replaced the EGR valve twice. The third Stealership replaced the MAS Air flow and recommended I go back to the factory filter. Once I did I never had a throttle hang issue again.

I also Dynoed the car and found that there was a 2HP wheel difference between the factory and K&N. 5hp between factory and No air filter. I decided that the problems I encountered were not worth 2Whp.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing, except that it's the IAC that gets messed up by the K&N oil. I had a K&N flat filter in my '95 and went through two IACs in two years. I've only been using the paper filter in my '97 and I haven't had the same problem (my IAC doesn't work perfectly all the time, but it's at 94K miles and as far as I know has never been replaced).
 
Jeb Hoge said:
I was thinking the same thing, except that it's the IAC that gets messed up by the K&N oil. I had a K&N flat filter in my '95 and went through two IACs in two years. I've only been using the paper filter in my '97 and I haven't had the same problem (my IAC doesn't work perfectly all the time, but it's at 94K miles and as far as I know has never been replaced).
Click to expand...

It may have been the IAC. It was about 5 years ago and in a different car when it happend. The last time they replace the AFS and put the factory filter back in and the problem never came back. Damn you K&N!!!
 
Just a note for people replying... I'm an electrician... so I know why the fuse is blowing. That itself wasn't my concern since it's more than likely the wiring to the bank 1 lower, which I can't access unless I'm on a lift.

What I was worried about was the idle issue when I have the new IAC plugged in. Something is telling the computer to raise the idle and hold it (no matter the speed, it'll hold 5K+) with it plugged in, but unplug it, and it drops normally (but won't idle, since there isn't any air getting thru).

Someone already mentioned that no O2 sensors will not cause the idle issue, so I suppose it's 2 separate issues then.

And for doing multiple things at once, I covered that, but I highly doubt the headers are causing my high idle... the IAC is the culprit, but I need to figure out what is causing it to just go wide open when it gets power.
 
HighPoweredKaufman said:
Is the general consensus that K&N filters are bad for your car? I just finally got one. :(
Click to expand...

No. K&N filters are great filters. The problems people are talkig about here are the oil on them. I never had a problem and neither have many others...

The issue is either...
1. they are re-oiling them using too much...
or
2. they came too oiled.

I'd suggest taking an air hose to it for a few seconds to get any excess off, but ONLY the excess if any.
 
Even properly oiled K&N filters will contaminate the heated wire in the MAF sensor. I have never had to replace the MAF in my car, just clean it. CRC makes a specific spray to clean the MAF sensor it works really well, if you have a K&N get a can of the CRC stuff and clean your MAF.
 
I would NOT suggest taking an air hose, or water hose, or any other form of concentrated force to the filter. rips, tears, and changes in filter media are easily caused by this. They specifically state this in your K&N pamphlet, and the oiling kit instruction paper.
 
Stupid question Kane, but did you reset your ECM when you put the headers on? I'm sure you disconnected the battery to put the headers in, but if you didn't then your ECM may be having a tough time adjusting to the headers.

Also for the idling issue... did you check all vacuum lines on the car? There are quite a few on the rear side of the engine and when installing headers I would imagine pulling one of them loose on accident would be fairly easy if your were rushing to get them on as soon as possible. I'd look at the idle air control valve on the back side of the engine and check to see if it's working properly as well.
 
Yeah, I've pulled both the battery cable and the fuses a few times. As soon as the drive cycle is done, it's wacky again.

Sprayed carb cleaner around all the vacuum lines and UIM/LIM, no change to the idle (I made a vaccum leak and sprayed to see what I was supposed to be looking for).

Would cleaning the TB have caused this? I didn't touch the MAF, so it shouldn't have had anything happen to it.
 
Ok, still trying to fix this crap... Traced out the vacuum lines since the car runs w/o the IAC being plugged in, so it has to be getting air from somewhere else (unless the IAC is normally open a bit when it doesn't have power...).

I found the black thing bolted to the back side of the UIM next to the IAC with it's connector unplugged.

Jacked it in and reconnected the vacuum lines I unplugged while trying to stick my hand back there. Runs a lot smoother now.

However, the O2 sensors blowing the fuse is still a mystery. Guess I'll find where the wires go and WTF is going on.

Now I made a video showing what is going on, before and after I reconnected the vacuum thing.

Video - 14.2MB WMV (right click, save as)

The subtitles show whenever I did something... The rest of the time is the car deciding what it felt like doing...

First Clip is 0:00 showing IAC connected and vacuum thing unplugged.
Second Clip is 1:30 showing IAC and the vacuum thing unplugged.
<<Reconnected both connectors and reset ECU at this point>>
Third Clip is 2:50 showing "normal" config with both connectors back in.

I know the fuel pump is going out! I have another one to put in, have to wait until I get some $ so I can take it to the hobby shop.

EDIT: the "connector" I found off was the EVR solenoid.
 
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