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Timing belt woes....

C

conbon

CEG'er
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
271
Location
St. Louis, MO
I was driving to school the other day, car seemed like it was losing power, then the motor sputtered to a stop. Using what little momentum I had left, I whiped into a parking lot and stopped. Then I turned the ignition off and tried to start it again. I fealt like the motor was free spinning. I really didn't know what it was at the time, so I stopped trying and just called my mom. She got me to school and went back to take care of the tow and everything.

Later that day I got a text from her saying that she took it to the local shop that we've used for years. He said the timing belt had snapped and bent all the valves and that the car was totaled. I told her that he was lieing, because Zetecs are non-interferance motors and thats impossible. She called him back, he argues with her saying that they were interferance motors. Couple hours later he calls back and says that I was right, Zetecs are non-interferance and it will just need a belt, he's busy but he'll take a look on Monday and shoot us an estimate.

Fast forward to today. I'm already upset that I have to pay someone to change the belt for me, especially when that person can't even diagnose the car correctly. We got a call from him, $700 to replace the belt because we need the special water pump belt. Again, I told my mom that the family mechanic is an idiot, the water pump is driven by the serpentine belt. Now she's starting to doubt the shop's abilities and she's thinking about letting me do it.

I've done some research, I know what parts I'll need and i've read up on some how tos. How hard is it really to change the timing belt? I've changed my serpentine belt, that was pretty easy. I'm just wondering if I should argue firther with my mom about letting me change it, or just go ahead and let nuckle-futs down at the local shop do it for $700.

Thanks, Connor
 
i would say don't go to this guy anymore because who knows how many people he has ripped off. to do your timing belt is not that hard, a little time consuming if you've never done it before. but if you can do a tune up you can reset the timing and install a new belt on your car. you'll want the timing blet kit, IIRC it has two idler pullies and the belt and a tensioner. if you skim the zetec howto section you find a pretty easy to follow walk by ZX2Fast that help while you do the work. i think the first time i did it it took me like three hours.
 
Ya, I was planning on picking up the Gates timing belt kit from Rockauto and the alignment tool from zxtuner.

I saw ZX2Fast's how to, I was planning on using that to help me.

Now I just need to convince my mom that I'm capable of doing it myself, thats the only reason she's trying to make me take it to a shop.

-Connor
 
Yeah man, the how to's are really helpful, only new parts you'll need are the timing kit, (be sure to replace the idlers/tensioner) That flat bar to line up the camshafts, and a new valve cover gasket.

Basically, getting to the belt is alittle more time consuming than actually timing it.

Wait, does your car have variable cam timing? early 98's don't, but the late 98's do. look to see if ur valve cover has VCT stamped on it
 
All 98's have VCT. Read up on Eric2.0's thread. It's very helpful. I've gone through the timing on my pre98 (much easier) a number of times and it is cake. Most mechanics, for some reason, just can't seem to do it right. Do it yourself. The Gates timing kit is pretty cheap on RockAuto, and has worked well for many people. The Duralast kit is almost the same price at AutoZone (considering shipping for the Gates kit), but I haven't read anything about how good or bad it is.
 
Special water pump belt?... The only thing a timing belt should ever turn is the cams..that's it. That guy is a douche-bag. 700 dollars... *cringes*

If you have any sort of mechanical ability I would go for it and do it yourself.
I have no idea how much you have worked on cars, but I stress safety before anything. This procedure requires passenger side engine mount removal and you will need to support both engine and car on proper stands.

I just did my first timing job on my Zetec and it turned out great. Like you I had to do all the research and gather up all the good tools and parts, but it was worth a few cusses and scraped knuckles knowing I would be saving a SH*tload of money.

I agree with the other poster that said the most time is getting to the belt itself.

I did it like this...

#1 Unhook battery

#2 Support car on stands

#3 Remove plastic coolant tank on pass fender

#4 remove valve cover/aircleaner.wires/hoses

#5 support engine with jack and good piece of plywood under oil pan.

#6 remove inner splash guards on pass fender.

#7 remove starter and use long/thick screw driver and wedge flywheel

#8 Use 18mm socket with extension and breaker bar.... loosen pulley bolt.(Make sure to put on good gloves and make sure you have a good set of sockets on that bolt, don't pull the car off the stands...Be safe)

#9 remove engine mount

And lastly... water pump pulley and belt then remove all the timing case covers and there it is. Take the old belt out of there and vacuum out all the little chunks of rubber. Inspect everything and use degreaser or brake cleaner, get some rags and clean it up in there.

Also get some small boxes or jars and put all the bolts and little screws in them keeping organized with labels to where they go. store them in the trunk or a good shelf in the garage.

Again..safety first, take your time and good luck!.
 
Eric2.0 said:
Special water pump belt?... The only thing a timing belt should ever turn is the cams..that's it. That guy is a douche-bag. 700 dollars... *cringes*

If you have any sort of mechanical ability I would go for it and do it yourself.
I have no idea how much you have worked on cars, but I stress safety before anything. This procedure requires passenger side engine mount removal and you will need to support both engine and car on proper stands.

I just did my first timing job on my Zetec and it turned out great. Like you I had to do all the research and gather up all the good tools and parts, but it was worth a few cusses and scraped knuckles knowing I would be saving a SH*tload of money.

I agree with the other poster that said the most time is getting to the belt itself.

I did it like this...

#1 Unhook battery

#2 Support car on stands

#3 Remove plastic coolant tank on pass fender

#4 remove valve cover/aircleaner.wires/hoses

#5 support engine with jack and good piece of plywood under oil pan.

#6 remove inner splash guards on pass fender.

#7 remove starter and use long/thick screw driver and wedge flywheel

#8 Use 18mm socket with extension and breaker bar.... loosen pulley bolt.(Make sure to put on good gloves and make sure you have a good set of sockets on that bolt, don't pull the car off the stands...Be safe)

#9 remove engine mount

And lastly... water pump pulley and belt then remove all the timing case covers and there it is. Take the old belt out of there and vacuum out all the little chunks of rubber. Inspect everything and use degreaser or brake cleaner, get some rags and clean it up in there.

Also get some small boxes or jars and put all the bolts and little screws in them keeping organized with labels to where they go. store them in the trunk or a good shelf in the garage.

Again..safety first, take your time and good luck!.
Click to expand...


a couple notes about this.

step 3 isnt necessary but it does provide some extra working room which is always nice.

step 7 can be skipped if you have an impact gun to use for step 8.

for the water pump bolts, its usually easier to loosen them while the serpentine belt is still on as it helps keep the pulley from turning.

I didnt see how many miles are on the car but it might be worth going ahead and replacing the water pump, if it hasnt been done yet, since you're already in there and have easy access to it.
 
striker2 said:
a couple notes about this.

step 3 isnt necessary but it does provide some extra working room which is always nice.

step 7 can be skipped if you have an impact gun to use for step 8.

for the water pump bolts, its usually easier to loosen them while the serpentine belt is still on as it helps keep the pulley from turning.

I didnt see how many miles are on the car but it might be worth going ahead and replacing the water pump, if it hasnt been done yet, since you're already in there and have easy access to it.
Click to expand...


i agree the coolant tank can be unbolted and then turned up and out of the way this way you don't have to deal with topping the tank off and i feel it's a must to loosen the waterpump bolts with the belt on, unless you have a strap wrench and like making things harder than they have to be.
 
You can do the WP bolts w/o the belt off if you do two opposite bolts at once, but it's way easier to loosen them with the belt on! Also agree that it is awesome to have the coolant tank out of the way. In fact, the past two times we dove into the timing, the coolant tank was empty, so we took it out completely! :laugh:
 
On the water pump pulley bolts, cut off a chunk of old timing belt, wrap it around the pulley and snugly put a medium size C-clamp on it. Hold the c-clamp and turn out each bolt. Works great when it comes time to tighten em back up too.
 
Eric

Eric

Eric, please forward the tsb to the OP.

OP, follow the tsb to the letter and you will be a happy camper (that means loosening the cams). I'd recommend getting the cam alignment tool and the crank stop pin. This kit can usually be had for around 20 or more bucks.

If you can round up a 1/2 impact your life will be sooooo much easier.

Of course you will need to not only replace the belt but the idlers and tensioner as well.

And don't get your shorts in a wad if after you rotate the engine a few times to ensure that the belt does not hang off one edge of the pulleys that the exhaust cam does not line up again. The VCT and the valve spring pressure will pretty much ensure that the exhaust cam no longer lines up.

Best of luck
 
I have a 2-car garage filled with tools, you guys, a Haynes manual, a compressor and impact....and my mom still doesn't think I'll be able to do it.

I'm pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. Its still her car, but I'm the only one who drives it. Because its her car, she tells me I HAVE to take it to the shop. I told her if she wants to do that then SHE should have to pay to have HER car repaired, or just give me the car for good and let me do what I want with it. She said she won't give me the car, but if I don't pay to fix it it then she won't let me drive it anymore. So basically I have to pay to fix her car so I can continue to borrow it. I've asked her if I can get my own car, she won't let me, I'm not even allowed to buy one with my own money. She makes these rules so she has one thing to control me with, because I need a car to get to both my schools and to work everyday. She's pretty much the most stuborn person you'll ever have to deal with. I can't wait until I graduate and move out...
 
A few pictures for a little enthusiasm for you. This was all taken two weeks ago as I finished up my timing belt on my car. In the first pic you will see my workshop where I worked on my car lmao.

31390001.jpg


The new belt on and ready for a test start

31390002.jpg


Engine with top view of new timing belt

31390003.jpg


Engine warming up/checking for leaks.

31390009.jpg


Ahhhhhh hood shut, everything seems good and ready to take a cruise!...

31390007.jpg
 
Try a different approach

Try a different approach

You might offer this to your mom.

Make a deal with her. She gives you permission to fix it and you promise that if you cannot in a short period of time, you will pay for the towing and for someone else to repair. If it comes to that I'd only go with someone who has done several of these cars.

To make a sucessful job of it you will need a funny sized torx (T55??????) for the intake cam and a 16mm 12 point for the exhaust cam along with the cam alignment tool and crank stop pin. It goes without saying that the belt, tensioner, idlers, cam cover gasket will need to be replaced.

Or just go ahead and do it without her permission and suffer the consequences.

But after all it is HER car. Remember the golden rule, those with the gold, rule.
 
She went ahead and took it to a shop and it was done yesterday. Also needed something in the cooling system replaced, I thinking it was the temperature sending unit or something. Total came out to just under $900 and we're splitting the bill 50/50. She's also going to sell me the car for $450 so that from now on I can make all the choices when it comes to repairs. Just in time too, it needs the front suspension springs and the front tires replaced, along with the long overdue upstream O2 sensor before it will pass inspections in February. I can feal a large withdrawl being made from my bank account very soon, but after that I should be set for a little while as long as the CD4E doesn't give out on me...

Thanks for all your help anyways guys, its a shame I wasn't allowed to put it to good use, maybe next time.

-Connor
 
andreslobo said:
To make a successful job of it you will need a funny sized torx (T55??????) for the intake cam and a 16mm 12 point for the exhaust cam along with the cam alignment tool and crank stop pin.
Click to expand...


Yepp, it's a T-55 Torx and 16MM.

When I loosened the sprockets I put a good crescent wrench on the cam hex close to the sprockets, turned the cam until the wrench hit the head. I then made a tool to hold the the sprocket itself from turning and had my dad come over and hold the tool while I gently applied pressure to loosen the bolt. It was not as tight as I thought it would be. Put a rag between the crescent wrench and head so it doesn't marr the aluminum head as you twist the bolt loose.
 
conbon said:
Total came out to just under $900 and we're splitting the bill 50/50. She's also going to sell me the car for $450 so that from now on I can make all the choices when it comes to repairs.
Click to expand...

Let her own the car! Seems she will pay for the repairs as long as she owns it... Seems like a great deal!..lmao..J/K man. I know you don't want to drain your mom's purse.

It's a lot of money, but hey...your car is running now and you can get around.


Next time, buddy...next time:cool:
 
Ya, I really want to just let her keep the car and pay for all of it, but there's a couple problems with that theory. 1) I'd be hard pressed to find a better car for $900 (450 for repairs and 450 for car), 2) I don't have the money for a new car right now, 3) I really don't want things to be any worse between us right now, cause I should be getting my grades shortly and I know she won't be happy with my math grade...

-Connor
 
Man, it pisses me off when I see what shops charge to time these engines. It really isn't that hard. They also usually screw it up because that VCT somehow makes them scared. I only charge $100 to do the timing kit on a Zetec because it is only $100 worth of work.

Crap, too bad you didn't notice the video I sell that shows you how to do the belt. At least they didn't try to BS you into thinking you had bent valves. Did they use all new ider and tensioner pullies? You should also check to see if they used the TSB or you might have issues with the belt failing early.
 
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