Terry was saying this years ago people. I still don't understand why everyone thinks it's an oiling issue, if it was ALL the lower end bearings would be toast.
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Spun yet another bearing
- Thread starter jaged
- Start date
Terry was saying this years ago people. I still don't understand why everyone thinks it's an oiling issue, if it was ALL the lower end bearings would be toast.
mrspindlelegs
CEG'er
Hmmm. Piston failure due to detonation? I don't recall if your using the factory hypereutectic or aftermarket forged pistons. The 3.0s do have better piston lands than the earlier 2.5s but hypereutectics are brittle. If the piston is the actual root cause this time, you better do forged pistons & forged rods if you are going to resurrect the 3.0 one more time. You may even want to go the oil squirter route that CSVT#49 is taking in his project. The money really piles up when you push a motor hard. I was thinking of doing an FI setup on my Contour but when it became clear that adding FI plus the necessary upgrades to make the engine last would add at least $5000 to the bill, I said "Forget it!"
mrspindlelegs
CEG'er
Now that is disturbing, especially when these Duratec 3.0s come out of cars with automatic transmissions that are not seeing the high revs that we put our engines through on the Contours, Cougars and Mystiques.
jaged
Veteran CEG'er
i dont have room there due to the vortech headers
striker2
Official CEG Vendor
IDK, the 6G72 has some slight oiling issues (nothing major if you pay attention to it though) in that the oil pressure can drop low at idle. Mitsubishi claims minimum oil pressure at hot idle is only 11PSI. :shocked: even those with complete forged bottom ends sometimes have problems (the stock rods are also a powder metal process even for the turbo engines) and guess what happens to both them and stock engines if the pressure drops too low for a long period of time. they spin a rod bearing and have no damage to the mains or even the other rod bearings.
now, my 6G72 engine has 222K miles on it and i just recently replaced all the rod bearings and checked clearances (didnt pull the engine and do a complete tear down just used plastigauge) but even with that many miles on a 300HP engine everything was still right in the middle of spec and the old bearings looked damn good (obviously old and used but absolutely zero copper showing at all). now i know that the previous (who was also the original) owner used it mostly on the highway, but i also know he had his fair share of fun (and tickets) in it so he wasnt exactly easy on it.
as i have said before, rods will stretch when you free rev (in neutral with no load) the engine to even just 4000RPMs (obviously the exact RPM depends on the rods themselves). guess what we do in order to check the IMRC, free rev it to 4000, so its no wonder the 2.5 seems to have such problems here on CEG (as well as ported 3Ls). oval 3Ls seem to have less problems but you never know what was done to it before you got it, as well as how many people like to rev their engines just to hear the exhaust.
zorrex
Enjoys the Abuse
Then again, there aren't as many ovals out there. We will have to wait and see if those motors start having issues.
jaged
Veteran CEG'er
all of mine have been full ovals
zorrex
Enjoys the Abuse
Well there you go. All engine builds are having problems, haha. I know there aren't many hybrids out there anymore, not sure about the status of the hybrid builds. Of course, if anything, I'd expect hybrid builds to be the worst in terms of durability, although I know CSVT1214 has had his hybrid for-freaking-ever.
TRicker
Hard-core CEG'er
the connecting rods are what make rod bearings spin. people just don't listen to the facts. they are powdered metal forged rods. its a terrible process first off. second off, they are prone to getting a flat spot on the very top of the bearing surface, from the downward force of the compression stroke. what happens, is this round bearing journal gets slightly hammered down flat on the top causing a point in the bearing surface where the tolerance is too tight, oil can't get in there well enough. the bearing slowly wears and the tiny pieces of bearing that are being spun around and around that bearing eventually take the rest of the bearing out. now your car is knocking!
your only "real" answer is a good set of forged rods and a repolished crank and new bearings. don't run thick oil even with boost. you have to keep tight bearing tolerances and a 5 weight oil, you can't go with a wide bearing clearance and a thick oil like lots of people do.
jaged
Veteran CEG'er
i run the 5-20 motorcraft synthetic blend
BlackBetty
CEG'er
Thanks for that! I was watching the old Noble review in season 2.. I recently have acquired seasions 1-15 of Top Gear
.Brapple- 4k? That's a lot better then what I thought!
zorrex
Enjoys the Abuse
Buying a Noble motor is cheaper than a build like CSVT #49. Someone should do it, lol.
Beans
Addicted CEG'er
Someone is/was doing it.
zorrex
Enjoys the Abuse
Yeah I vaguely remember someone posting about it. Whatever happened with that?
not sure. it was that guy down in VA. he sold all his mods for his 96 off for like a $1 each. he ended up with 2 T-green svts with 20k and 33k. he was going for a good and evil twin. the evil twin was getting the last ADC turbo kit, a fully build HMS mtx-75 and the noble engine. the engine was $4.5k iirc now.
jedscontour?
yes it was jedscontour
http://www.contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?24045-Twin-99-Tropic-Green-SVTs&highlight=
looking at old threads the nice twin, with 20k was sold
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jaged
Veteran CEG'er
got the pan off today and there wasnt a whole lot of metal in there. 3,6, and 2 have left to right play, and 3 has some up and down play. havent pulled the rods apart yet, but the crank is basically toast unless it gets polished, at which point bearings would have to be ordered to fit the new OD of the crank correct? The other crank that i have is in a complete 3L that i have but it is a 00 and i dont really want to scrap a motor just for the crank. i can use it in the other car or sell it
ive decided that i might as well get this done now so i can push the car outside and work in the garage with out having to worry about snow and what not. need to talk to a couple shops about having the bottom end put together and what it would cost. that way i might get some kind of warranty out of it. and since the heads are off i can do a proper port job on them. i also think that i am going to run the old style pcv system. i was never happy with the new set up and think that that is part of why is blew oil everywhere. i never had that problem with the old set up
ive decided that i might as well get this done now so i can push the car outside and work in the garage with out having to worry about snow and what not. need to talk to a couple shops about having the bottom end put together and what it would cost. that way i might get some kind of warranty out of it. and since the heads are off i can do a proper port job on them. i also think that i am going to run the old style pcv system. i was never happy with the new set up and think that that is part of why is blew oil everywhere. i never had that problem with the old set up
CSVT#49
Addicted CEG'er
Jaged... cant believe no one has asked this question... what are you running for bearing clearances?
Many manufacturers use powdered metal rods. The Duramax diesel for instance has them and can be pushed to insane power levels on stock rods with no issues. I personally think Ford under designed these rods or the supplier made crap rods. Too many cars on the road today with zero rod related problems and these cars are prone too it.
Like I said terry was preaching this many many years ago.
What good is the bearing clearance if the rods are getting hammered into ovals? If the rod end becomes oval shaped it won't hold the bearing in place for long.
CSVT#49
Addicted CEG'er
No where did I read that he found his rods to have largely out of round bearing surface. If that is the case then obviously he has bigger problems and should be looking at purchasing a set of aftermarket H beam rods.
it doesn't take much and they'll be out of round, did he actually check them with a bore guage?