So, what are my legal options in California, for precat replacement?

[Bob Blaylock]

I just recently acquired a Duratec-powered Contour with bad precats. The dealer was able to get it smogged, to sell it to me, but it soon thereafter started throwing P0420 and P0430 codes. I know that one way or another, I'll need to have this fixed before the time comes to smog it again in two years.

So what are my legal options?

I know the most proper fix would be new stock exhaust-manifold/precat assemblies, but those appear to be prohibitively expensive.

A friend of mine was speaking of cutting the cats off and welding new cats of a more generic sort to the existing manifolds. Would this be legal in California?

Together with this idea, I've wondered if we're doing any modification on this scale, whether it might be worthwhile to go with a dual-exhaust system. Do away with the Y-pipe and install separate pipes all the way to the back. If I did this, would each separate exhaust need to have a main cat as well as a precat, or could California's requirements be satisfied with one cat on each, perhaps each one bigger than a standard precat?​

I've read of other CEGers installing headers in place of the stock manifold/precat assemblies, but surely this is not California-legal at all, is it?

Any other other suggestions or options that I should consider?

I suppose I could go the “Mystery Mod” route*, but if it is at all feasible, I'd like to deal with this in a manner that is legal and proper.

* I am seriously considering making and installing “MIL eliminators” as a temporary measure, just so that the bad cats won't keep my “Check Engine Light” on and mask other possible problems. Hmmm…this thought now makes me wonder if there's any significant likelihood that I could simply have bad O2 sensors rather than bad cast causing the P0420/P0430 codes.

 

[Heywood]

All the options you just described won't be legal in CA. I guess the question is, do you want it to be legal or just to pass smog? People have found that due to the congestion in the engine bay, even with headers, the car usually passes the visual and the main cat when warmed up will easily pass the sniffer. You can forget about true duals, you're only allowed to mod the exhaust behind the main cat, hence cat-back exhausts.
Its possible that those codes are being thrown for another reason, I think that bad o2s often can cause them.
I'd also check whether the dealer has some responsibility to fix emissions equipment?

Sorry, I didn't get to the end of your post before replying :troutslap:.
You could go with MIL eliminators and gut the precats. This would be the least visible way out, but obviously a long way from legal.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

All the options you just described won't be legal in CA. I guess the question is, do you want it to be legal or just to pass smog?

If at all possible, I want to be legal. Sounds like legal might turn out to be prohibitively expensive. What do you suppose the best total cost is that I can possibly find to get both precats replaced properly?

If legal simply isn't going to happen, then I'll settle for what will pass smog, with minimal risk of getting caught, but I really don't want to go that route unless I have no other choice.

I suppose that if I go the route suggest by my friend, of having the old precats cut off and new, generic cats welded on to the existing manifolds, that this sort of modification would be obvious enough to whomever performs a smog test that I'd risk failing on that basis if they do a visual inspection.

Its possible that those codes are being thrown for another reason, I think that bad o2s often can cause them.

Yes, I was wondering about that. Is there any way that you know of to test these sensors, short of simply replacing them and seeing if that solves the problem?

You could go with MIL eliminators and gut the precats. This would be the least visible way out, but obviously a long way from legal.

I don't think it'd even be necessary (nor even desirable) at this point to gut the cats. I'm not seeing any indication that they're clogged and hurting performance. The car seems to be performing well enough. It certainly has noticeably more power than my Zetec-based Mystique had. The only indication of any problem at all are the P0420 and P0430 codes. The MIL eliminators should make that go away. I have to assume that even if they are below standard, the precats are still doing some good, and that I'd more easily pass smog next time around with them intact than with them gutted out.

 

[Fmr12B]

Legal) New Precats from Ford

Not Legal)
Used precats from a CEG member who has headers
(While not 100% legal, as long as your mechanic will install them no one will be the wiser and you will be complying with the majority of the CARB laws)

MIL Eliminators - Basically tricking your computer into thinking there are no issues so it will not throw a code (cheap and easy fix)


People in California pass smog all the time with headers and a main cat. Headers are installed so tightly in the engine bay it will most likely pass the visual inspection.

I'd install MIL eliminators - car will run fine and you should be able to pass smog. Its the cheapest fix as replacing the exhaust manifolds is a pain the ass labor wise.

 

[DocStruthers]

I just recently acquired a Duratec-powered Contour with bad precats. The dealer was able to get it smogged, to sell it to me, but it soon thereafter started throwing P0420 and P0430 codes. I know that one way or another, I'll need to have this fixed before the time comes to smog it again in two years.

So what are my legal options?

I know the most proper fix would be new stock exhaust-manifold/precat assemblies, but those appear to be prohibitively expensive.

A friend of mine was speaking of cutting the cats off and welding new cats of a more generic sort to the existing manifolds. Would this be legal in California?

Together with this idea, I've wondered if we're doing any modification on this scale, whether it might be worthwhile to go with a dual-exhaust system. Do away with the Y-pipe and install separate pipes all the way to the back. If I did this, would each separate exhaust need to have a main cat as well as a precat, or could California's requirements be satisfied with one cat on each, perhaps each one bigger than a standard precat?​

I've read of other CEGers installing headers in place of the stock manifold/precat assemblies, but surely this is not California-legal at all, is it?

Any other other suggestions or options that I should consider?

I suppose I could go the “Mystery Mod” route*, but if it is at all feasible, I'd like to deal with this in a manner that is legal and proper.

* I am seriously considering making and installing “MIL eliminators” as a temporary measure, just so that the bad cats won't keep my “Check Engine Light” on and mask other possible problems. Hmmm…this thought now makes me wonder if there's any significant likelihood that I could simply have bad O2 sensors rather than bad cast causing the P0420/P0430 codes.

you must keep cats where cats were originally. if your car came with 17 cats it must maintain that forever.

IF you replace them they can be replaced with any brand as long as they are approved by the state CA, in your case. Unfortunately we have a cat/header combo from what I remember. Very $$$.

The performance headers commonly seen on contours on here are NOT legal in CA. Regardless of o2 bungs and whatever else is said they are NOT legal. I am 95% sure of this. The reason for this is the headers do not(to my knowledge) have a C.A.R.B. number which WOULD MAKE it CA smog acceptable.

NOW, you may be able to have headers installed and put Ford related and CA approved cats as long as you still have o2 sensors before and after the cats or where ever they were located originally. But I doubt this will fly.
However there are some specific cats that ARE CA approved for our OBDII vehicles . . .
http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductList.aspx?CategoryCode=3333B
link should direct you to a parts store with universal cats for a 99 CSVT.

I hope I help you. Good luck!

 

[DocStruthers]

Legal) New Precats from Ford

Not Legal)
Used precats from a CEG member who has headers
(While not 100% legal, as long as your mechanic will install them no one will be the wiser and you will be complying with the majority of the CARB laws)

MIL Eliminators - Basically tricking your computer into thinking there are no issues so it will not throw a code (cheap and easy fix)


People in California pass smog all the time with headers and a main cat. Headers are installed so tightly in the engine bay it will most likely pass the visual inspection.

I'd install MIL eliminators - car will run fine and you should be able to pass smog. Its the cheapest fix as replacing the exhaust manifolds is a pain the ass labor wise.

I would agree. Long as you keep everything as stock looking as possible.

Don't have shiny pretty stuff everywhere that looks aftermarket. I would be wiling to take a chance with some good headers painted black to blend with everything else in the engine bay. Then some GOOD, QUALITY cats like the ones I sent in the link I previously posted, and a fairly quiet exhaust. I would not hesitate to take it to the most d*ck tester. I believe TEST ONLY stations are the best idea. I don't think they even open the hood, according to my friend when he took his older, stock bmw.

 

[DocStruthers]

read EVERYTHING.

http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/

twice

 

[Bob Blaylock]

you must keep cats where cats were originally. if your car came with 17 cats it must maintain that forever.

IF you replace them they can be replaced with any brand as long as they are approved by the state CA, in your case. Unfortunately we have a cat/header combo from what I remember. Very $$$.
·
·
·
http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductList.aspx?CategoryCode=3333B
link should direct you to a parts store with universal cats for a 99 CSVT.

It looks like you might give a different answer than Heywood did regarding one of the possible options that i mentioned.

The stock exhaust manifolds with precats built in, I assume are terribly expensive. But some of the “universal cats” in your link are not nearly so bad.What about having the original cats cut off of my existing manifolds, and appropriate-sized CARB-approved universal catalytic converters welded in their place? Heywood apparently thinks this wouldn't be legal. From what you've written, it appears that you think it would—am I correct?

 

[DocStruthers]

why not. however i think it would be very hard to do that. It is so integrated I think if the original was cut off it would render the stock header useless. It's almost like the cat is a collector even. It is a real b*tch. Once you see it you will understand what I am saying.

 

[DocStruthers]

Hope you like my drawing.
This is what I mean.

It's not a simple cut and replace type job.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

why not. however i think it would be very hard to do that. It is so integrated I think if the original was cut off it would render the stock header useless. It's almost like the cat is a collector even. It is a real b*tch. Once you see it you will understand what I am saying.

Hope you like my drawing.
This is what I mean.

It's not a simple cut and replace type job.

Your drawing does indeed make it look pretty bad. In a sense, you're depicting the cat as being the manifold. This sent me out to look under my hood and see what I could see. The engine compartment is pretty packed, as has been said, and it is pretty difficult to see much. I do think I was able to see that the front precat, at least, isn't nearly as bad as what you've depicted. It does seem clear to me that the manifold does taper down to a roughly pipe-sized “neck” before it flares back out into the cat. I don't know if this is something that would be substantially more difficult to cut and weld than a regular pipe; I guess I'll have to ask someone who actually does this sort of work. Anyway, it's not as bad as what you depicted in your drawing. Of course, the rear manifold/precat assembly might be different. I cannot get a good view of that at all.

My pictures aren't very good, but then neither was my direct view.

The bright object in this picture is the manifold. In this view, it can be seen going into a single “neck”.




From a different angle, the cat itself. The “neck” is hidden here, behind some other structural part of the car.

 

[98SVTC]

I had the precats/exhaust manifolds replaced for ~$1600 a few years ago at the Ford dealer I bought my car from when it threw a CEL. They tend to last about 80K miles.

There's one other option - the one I'm taking as soon as possible - move out of California. It's really a shame that I am finding it is no longer feasible to live in the state I was born in long ago. We have the highest taxes, most ridiculous laws, idiotic politicians, illegal immigrants, rude people, etc., of just about any state now and any possible advantages to living here are lost to me as a result. Your mileage may vary.
Karl

 

[DocStruthers]

I had the precats/exhaust manifolds replaced for ~$1600 a few years ago at the Ford dealer I bought my car from when it threw a CEL. They tend to last about 80K miles.

There's one other option - the one I'm taking as soon as possible - move out of California. It's really a shame that I am finding it is no longer feasible to live in the state I was born in long ago. We have the highest taxes, most ridiculous laws, idiotic politicians, illegal immigrants, rude people, etc., of just about any state now and any possible advantages to living here are lost to me as a result. Your mileage may vary.
Karl

I may move back to Texas. I can do anything I want to a car and it will pass. At least where I will be living it will pass. haha their like "wuuut's smooawg" -thick southern accent-
Not to mention it is much less expensive then CA. It is unreal what it costs to live and the pay here is not EVEN CLOSE to covering the cost. It is ridiculous.

I love cali but I hate it!

 

[98SVTC]

The company I semi work for has a division in Texas and I wouldn't be surprised if they try and move the whole operation there sometime in the future. I'd go but most of the engineers, who live by the beach in the South Bay, probably would not.
Karl

 

[svt4stv]

Legal) New Precats from Ford

Not Legal)
Used precats from a CEG member who has headers
(While not 100% legal, as long as your mechanic will install them no one will be the wiser and you will be complying with the majority of the CARB laws)

MIL Eliminators - Basically tricking your computer into thinking there are no issues so it will not throw a code (cheap and easy fix)


People in California pass smog all the time with headers and a main cat. Headers are installed so tightly in the engine bay it will most likely pass the visual inspection.

I'd install MIL eliminators - car will run fine and you should be able to pass smog. Its the cheapest fix as replacing the exhaust manifolds is a pain the ass labor wise.

yep

It looks like you might give a different answer than Heywood did regarding one of the possible options that i mentioned.

The stock exhaust manifolds with precats built in, I assume are terribly expensive. But some of the “universal cats” in your link are not nearly so bad.What about having the original cats cut off of my existing manifolds, and appropriate-sized CARB-approved universal catalytic converters welded in their place? Heywood apparently thinks this wouldn't be legal. From what you've written, it appears that you think it would—am I correct?

you wont find a real shop that would touch that with a 10 foot pole. maybe some back alley shop that is on the verge of packing up at any minute, but not a legit shop.

yeah, you really cant see the headers on these cars. theyre pretty well hidden. mil eliminators should do the trick as well.

 

[SVTED]

Not to sidetrack this thread but I've been thinking about headers for my car and keeping the main cat. I'm worried about emissions here in Ontario. I assume if cars pass the sniffer in Cali, I should be fine here right?

 

[Fmr12B]

Not to sidetrack this thread but I've been thinking about headers for my car and keeping the main cat. I'm worried about emissions here in Ontario. I assume if cars pass the sniffer in Cali, I should be fine here right?

So long as the main cat is is functioning you should be fine. Many people have passed California's stringent smog test rules with headers and a functioning main cat.

 

[svt4stv]

So long as the main cat is is functioning you should be fine. Many people have passed California's stringent smog test rules with headers and a functioning main cat.

yep. mine did.

you just need to drive around for a little bit before putting it on the dyno. need to warm up the main cat.