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Question for those with CD4E rebuild experience

mercman

CEG'er
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
45
Location
Long Island NY
I have to change my TC hub seal in the Mystique and was wondering if the seal is installed from the TC side of the cover or the inside of the cover? In other words, can I just remove the TC and replace the seal or do I have to pull the TC cover from the case?

Thanks
jeff
 
There is NO TC cover as such, the seal goes into the torque converter housing, which is one of two major castings that make up the transmission case assembly. Motor and trans must be pulled at least partway, lowering will allow trans to be broke up from motor, trans comes out bottom of car. Pull converter, yank seal and change. MUCHO trouble for such a small part. That freakin' trans is HEAVY and really oddball shaped, you really need a dedicated trans jack to handle it. Trans removal is on 4 cylinder, don't know about 6, although the transmission is the SAME ONE.
 
Ok thanks, that’s what I thought. I changed the TC 60k miles ago and should have changed the seal then. As long as the seal goes in from the TC side I can get at it by just pulling the engine from the top. Still a PIA but faster then dropping the U frame and tranny.

Now I just have to decide if I want to change the seal or go for a complete rebuild. My kid has been driving 600 mile round trips every month to see his GF and Saturday he got stuck 100 miles from home with no transmission fluid. He drove for a while before calling me about the transmission not engaging so the frictions are likely shot plus the 140k on the original tranny is a lot for a CD4E even with the VB mods. The tranny is fine with the exception of the leak although I did not but my pressure gauge on it I did drive it a scan it. No codes, no slips (didn’t stall test it).

$1400 for a rebuild and I do nothing,
$10 for a seal and I do all the work.

Tough call.

Thanks
jeff
 
If you rebuild, do yourself a BIG favor and change the forward/direct clutch cylinder if it already does not have the good superceded one in it. DON'T use a used one, which may blow as soon as you get a little time on it. That part is a serious problem on these things. The forward clutch disc snap ring eventually fatigues the end of cylinder and pieces start breaking off it. They have nowhere to go since they are inside other cylinders, they grind up and tear up EVERYTHING. The good cylinder both thicker and uses different manufacturing process to not pre-stress the snap ring groove. Standard part has tiny cracks in it when you pull one out of the box, it's tied to the way they made it.
 
I did some testing and I think the Thermostatic valve is the problem.

I did a line pressure check at idle and driving and it is in spec.
I checked for TC engagement and it is working fine
Scanned for codes and found none (both after the test drive and the 60 mile drive from where the car got stuck last week)
Did a stall test in all ranges and LP and RPM are in spec
Cleaned the underside of the car and in local driving no sign of a leak from the hub seal
Yesterday I drove about 15 miles on the hwy (about 18mi total) and checked the ATF level and it was over the full mark by about an inch and a half.
This morning the leak is back but I traced it to the fill tube seal, the ATF (cold) is now below the lower fill mark. Drove it another 18 mi and the ATF is near the full mark.

My theory is that the valve has stopped opening (or doesn’t open all the time) when the ATF gets hot and the expanded ATF is leaking out via the fill tube. I did see some ATF from the vent hose but the majority of the ATF was on the bottom near the fill tube. I’m still not 100% sure that it did not first overheat from sustained 80mph interstate driving or was running low on ATF because of the leak and suspected bad thermo valve.

I still have to measure the CT and front lube pressures to be sure, I believe the front lube is the top tap and the CT is the middle tap. If anybody can confirm this it would be appreciated.

Thanks
jeff
 
Thermostatic oil level control valve is not that difficult to replace on this atx - pull vb cover and there it is. Based on what you have done, it sounds like you have zeroed in on the problem. Fill tube seal of course should be replaced. I would provide you with the respective pressure test taps if I could find my documentation.........

Sounds like you don't need to replace tc seal.........
 
You can indeed access that valve under the side cover, I had seriously thought about totally defeating that sucker by blocking it open or removing it. At least that would make the fluid level more constant. It makes it too easy to accidentally overfill which could lead to air mixed in fluid, which will lead then to air in hydraulics. The hammering effect that could cause won't help the already existing problem of forward/direct cylinder breaking from repeated pressure application in normal use.
 
It seems you ran into a lot of the troubles I did. The biggest trouble I had was from living at the parts place, I was there so much they wanted me to pay rent. I apparently got my parts much cheaper in some cases spent around $600 for everything, no tools. I used various sized c-clamps and threaded rod/washers of all sizes like you. Put pistons in using coupla thin feeler gauges and LOTS of patience, that thin plastic idea sounds like a good one! Used a piece of surface plate and homemade length gauges, 6" calipers and lots of feeler gauges to set up case to rotating parts clearances. That direct plastic thrust washer commonly tears up, shop here keeps plenty in stock. Also as to the 2 slots/oil holes which MUST line up when reverse hub installed, my '98 model had 4 instead of 2. I had trouble finding correct forward/direct/coast cylinder, weeded through 4 different numbers to find the right part, some CAN be adapted as you say by varying thick or thin steels. '98 model has a different height coast piston, VERY easy to miss this and put in wrong one if kit has both as mine did. Also instead of multiple small springs, later model has one super big one to hold down coast and forward piston assy. There's a wave washer also between coast and forward clutch pack to cushion the clutch application so end of cylinder does not crack as easy. I took the time to grind out the recessed bushings until they were weak enough to deform them to remove. Used a Dremel with carbide cutter. Had trouble with aircheck on reverse cylinder leaking, piston/checkball OK. Turned out to be the seals on pump hub shaft that holds a lot of the rotating parts. Those seals real soft, need pressure to positively push them out to seal properly. They just kinda lay in the groove unlike older style iron seal rings which would seal like the dickens there. I assumed that oil pressure would seal it up on running. It must have worked as thought because trans instantly goes into all gears with a good bump and works fine. I found damage on forward clutch piston from weld BBs (F/D/C cylinder) coming loose and going around like cannon shot. I suggest anyone buying a new welded cylinder look at it very carefully and dislodge any weld BBs stuck to the part to save grief later. Changed bushings, needle bearings, plastic shims, all bonded pistons, band, pump driveshaft (you can really get raped here, one I bought cost $80 until I found one online later for $35 and got my money back!), clutches, but only a coupla steels, others fine, converter, F/D/C cylinder, direct shell, reverse/overdrive shell/sungear. Last 3 parts for exploded forward clutch from broken snap ring area. The low/intermediate and reverse/overdrive carriers both had battle damage but planetaries were good and tight so judicious use of grinder and sandpaper put them both back in a somewhat ugy but useable state. No electrical bought, I rebuilt the MLPS and checked it, and installed the transgo kit. Trans broke apart from motor underneath car, using a 6 ft. 4X4 and some 2X4 to imitate Ford's 3 point engine support for about $35. I have no place to put a hoist or cherry picker. In fact entire deal done without a garage either, on a dirt carport floor, you don't wanna know how.... Next to God cleanliness required for ATX was one of the hardest things to attain.
 
Sheesh! and I thought I was working on shoestring! Without the tools you mention including the engine removal....to say the least you worked your tail off.......

The engine/atx removal from the top was quite easy.

From what I have read and heard, this is one of the more problematic atx for shops to rebuild....

I ended up selling my Contour to my nephew who will be attending his first freshman semester this fall. Engine and atx now have 80k and are still running great. I have another old post in the old forums pinned under the Duratec Maintenance that illustrates the 2.5 rebuild I did also at the same time.

Regards,
Bob
 
Yeah, I did work my butt off. But considering what you pay today for them to do it WRONG, I'll never get paid better. I pride myself on the thought that I can do anything a well supplied shop can--on about 1/10 the cost. Sometimes an idea won't work out the cheap way, but rarely does it happen if you use careful thought. Even when it does, I've saved so much money i can afford a mistake or two. I have same view as you, if I'm gonna have to get dirty on this thing, the POS better last for years! I don't put that kind of work into something to see it break in a week or a month or even a year, it better go longer than that. My previous Tempo ATX trans rebuild still going after 7 years.
 
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