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Prepareing for 3L swap

S

SHOgoFast

Hard-core CEG'er
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I am going crosseyed from all the reading and have decided to just ask a few questions.

At this point the turbo will remain on the car. That is why I elected FI for this post. There was a really good post a few days ago about sources for turbo goodies and I have visited a lot of the sites. With that being said how far will the t28 take me on the 3L. I am not opposed to upgradeing to a larger turbo but really do not want to spend 700-1000 to do so. Anyone selling a t3/t04 or similar sized turbo? Secondly, the turbos i have looked at have different flanges than the ADC turbo I currently have. What is the best way to get compatability, new flanges welded on?

I will be port matching the 3L heads for use with 2.5 intake components. Is it adviseable to do so with the heads attached to the block? Again, if I can save ~160 for new head gaskets and head studs/ bolts I would like to. I know it can be done, but if suggestions to do them with the heads remove prevail I will go with the wisdom of CEG.

Gonna tack on one more quick one as the folks that will most likly reply to this will know this answer too. Everyone suggests putting in new Clevite 77 rod bearings when installing the 3l, what about the mains with the block out in the open, do those too?

As always, if some of this should be easy for me to find I will be happy with links or search suggestions. I think my reg date/post count/vehicle development indicates that I do far more reading the BS posting.

Thank you everyone.
 
OK where can I start here

1) T28 will not work period don't waste your time it is sized for 2.5 smaller.

2) you need to strip the kit down and switch to a 4 bolt and cut the 5 bolt off it is worthless and hard to bolt up.

3) The intercooler you have will support 350 whp max if even that .

4) turbo can be had for 600.00 new and you need to get a T3/T4 60 trim or 61mm wheel for max flow.

5) change the rod bearings but low mileage motor leave the mains alone unless you want to change all cradle bolts they are good still.

6) convert heads with the heads on just remove the cams and blow out the shaving once you are done be sure to cover all openings.

7) look into to a stage 3 clutch for the increase torque

8)the inlet flange on the intercooler must be change to a 2" from the smaller t28 one

9) Or I can show you how to convert a xs intercooler for $300-400 buck labor and parts good for 800 hp

10) You need to buy a 80mm MAF

11)You need at least 42 lb injectors

12) new tune

13) And last warmonger to fine tune it

all this to convert the 3 liter the kit you have is not going to support more than 325whp if you are lucky.

Or just buy the disco potato turbo spend the money and change nothing you might get 325whp with stock 3 liter same piping too. which is a tricked out T3
 
BurritaSVT said:
OK where can I start here

1) T28 will not work period don't waste your time it is sized for 2.5 smaller.

2) you need to strip the kit down and switch to a 4 bolt and cut the 5 bolt off it is worthless and hard to bolt up.

3) The intercooler you have will support 350 whp max if even that .

4) turbo can be had for 600.00 new and you need to get a T3/T4 60 trim or 61mm wheel for max flow.

5) change the rod bearings but low mileage motor leave the mains alone unless you want to change all cradle bolts they are good still.

6) convert heads with the heads on just remove the cams and blow out the shaving once you are done be sure to cover all openings.

7) look into to a stage 3 clutch for the increase torque

8)the inlet flange on the intercooler must be change to a 2" from the smaller t28 one

9) Or I can show you how to convert a xs intercooler for $300-400 buck labor and parts good for 800 hp

10) You need to buy a 80mm MAF

11)You need at least 42 lb injectors

12) new tune

13) And last warmonger to fine tune it

all this to convert the 3 liter the kit you have is not going to support more than 325whp if you are lucky.

Or just buy the disco potato turbo spend the money and change nothing you might get 325whp with stock 3 liter same piping too. which is a tricked out T3
Click to expand...


Thanks for all the input, I greatly appreciate it.

1. t28 out the window

2. You are referring to the downpipe correct?

3. was worried about that

4. any particular vendor you or others prefer?

5. I will change the rod bearins, but most likly leave the mains alone, mileage will be less than 25k.

6. glad to hear that, didnt want to pull heads unless i had to.

7. that was already in the plan, however i did not mention it.

8/9. If I can find the cash to do the above mentioned changes and new turbo this will be my most likely route.

10. Does it matter what injector size the MAF is calibrated for I have found various ones from 24lbs to 42lbs.

11. Any better source for 42lbs injectors other than ebay?

12/13. Warmonger will be my tuner.

You said "...all this to convert the 3 liter the kit you have is not going to support more than 325whp if you are lucky." Do you mean staying with the t28 and small intercooler, or even with the larger turbo and intercooler the piping will STILL limit me to 325?

Thanks again!!!

Jim, I hear you on going to peace of mind route. What is the common bearing that is spun on the Duratecs? Rod or Main?
 
no 325whp if you just put on the disco potato with your same setup. If you are satisfied with that output of approximate 400 hp just buy that turbo with the largest turbine housing you can put.

http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/customer_part_detail.asp?PartID=442

the turbo will flow 36 lb/min and on a stock 3.0 liter will net that power but If I was you I would ask if you can change the turbine outlet so you can move the powerband up top more.
 
I cant find anything!!

I cant find anything!!

So I have been on a quest for a larger turbo to support the 3L and some 42lb injectors. Now, finding the right sized turbo is easy, finding it for a price I can swallow is not. Burrita, you mentioned I should be able to get a new turbo for around 600.00...can you guide me to that source please.

The injectors are a different story all together. I can only seem to find return style injectors in that size and I will be needing returnless style. Im looking to you on this one Stazi as you are the only turbo 3L I know of with returnless.

At least 90mm lightning MAFs are all over the place.
 
as for the turbo i got mine for around 800 a bit higher than 600 so i cant help there, but as for the injectors call BILL J at team ford. he can find you some for a good deal, and he can either get you a set of injectors or a set of matched injectors.
 
I am finding 38# there. I am not trying to set any records here, that would go to 350 plus would it not?
 
todras said:
Do it.
Click to expand...

e5871fd2.gif
 
Okay, I am now seeing that the cost to accumulate the necessary parts for the proper turbo upgrade is going to be be too high, at least to get them quickly. I am sure with more patience I will be able to get what I want/need at reasonable prices. So, that being said, I see there is a 3L turbo in the classifieds with my exact same setup, injectors, turbo size, and intercooler.

Is there any problem with bolting what I have onto the 3L and then working on the upgrades as parts are discovered and more money earned? Obviously, new tuning would be in order, but thats okay. Would I need a larger maf still?

For the sake of learning new things what makes the intercooler insufficient? Does it become a flow restriction or does it just not have the necessary cooling ability at that level? Both? Which is the dominate limitation?

Same with turbo size...Obviously, I know the flow becomes greater on a larger turbo but if it can build the boost pressure what gives. And more on the turbos I have looked at, the ones that cost 500-600 are not GT series. From what I read there that means they are not dual ball bearing and not water cooled. Is that a big sacrifice as my current turbo is water cooled?

In the classifieds it said the guy put down 287whp at 11psi. Warmongers sig indicates 35x whp on 10 psi. Maybe im still a noob here, but why the drastic difference. Is there something I need to learn more about regarding turbo sizing that explains this or is that sheer tuning right there?

Now, I do understand doing things right the first time, but I really want to have the car on the road...hell, hasnt spent much time moving since I turbo'd the damn thing. With the tranny upgrades, the new motor and parts necessary for that upgrade im looking at a pretty steep bill as you all well know. I need a bit more time before I can drop 600+ for turbo, 300-400 for larger intercooler, 100+ for injectors.

Everyone has been great with their assistance thus far, and I thank you for that. Im am just throwing out what runs through my head daily for CEG's thoughts, suggestions, visible pitfalls, alternatives. Its not about total costs, more, cost distribution and not making hasty purchases.
 
Honestly I would just throw your current setup on and then upgrade later if you just want a driving car. The only drawback I see is changing the turbo flange in the car later on when you upgrade.
 
Couple of things, are you talking about the uppipe flange? I didnt think that one would need to be changed, I currently am of the impression that only the downpipe flange would need replacement to 4-bolt. Please advise.

And yes, those numbers were from a small t28 on a 3L. But, what explains 287@11psi for the t28 vs Toms 356@10psi on a larger turbo? I dont understand something, intuitively I am thinking boost is boost, and that as long as the turbo can build the same pressure throuout the RPM range and all other things being equal around it, the numbers should be similar. I am sure there is a point of diminshing returns where a smaller turbo, like the t28 will just not flow enough air to build certain boost levels at higher RPM.
 
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