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possible head gasket??

S

SVT#4967

CEG'er
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
322
Location
Michigan
so I was looking at my power steering lines because they are leaking and we noticed this...



This is a picture taken from under the car behind the engine. Basically looking straight up from the rear header. It looks to me like an oil leak, possibly from the head gasket. As you can see, it's leaking down the block and it's also on the header flange. It's not leaking bad as it's only half way down the block, not dripping to the ground yet. Also, to the right of the oil, under the header flange it looks like black soot or something, maybe an exhaust leak?

I purchased this car a couple months ago and haven't driven it yet and I want to take care of this before I start driving it. So if that means doing a head gasket and all gaskets with it then thats what I'll do.

So does this look like a head gasket to you guys/girls?

If so, what gaskets should I be doing so when I go to order/purchase these I make sure I get everything. Also, should I go OEM or should I just go to AutoZone and buy Fel-Pro or Rol?

Your help would be greatly appreciated, TIA
 
Any way you look at it you would be looking at some serious cash and time. Not to mention the fact that you might aswell pull the motor. The rear head is going to be a pain inside the engine bay.
 
ok, but what looks to be the problem(s)?

I need to know that before I go start buying parts.

It's not that I want to go drop 500 (or whatever) on gaskets but I want the car to be reliable so...

Also, if they heads do come off, do I need to replace the head studs as well? Are they one of those "one time torque" kinda things? I haven't looked for that in my manual yet, but I have been going through all the work it would take to do a head gasket and it doesn't look fun at all.

Does the motor really need to be pulled? I can see the rear manifold is going to be a pain to get off/on but people do header installs in the car so there is no difference there. What else would be a pain about the rear head?

This is my first time working on a Contour but I have done a head gasket job on a V6 95 Chevy Blazer. My girls brother would most likely be giving me a hand with this and he did head gaskets on a V6 93 Pontiac Grand Am. I'm used to Honda's but I think with the factory manuals and time I can do the work. I just want to make sure I diagnose the problem correctly first.
 
You will need to buy new torque to yield bolts, with the new head gaskets. You can do the job with the engine mounted in the car. The only pluses doing it with the engine installed is you don't have to to remove all the water hoses and radiator. Torquing down the heads will be easier, with the engine mounted in the car.
I pulled my V-6 because of leaking headgaskets, it will take more time but you can do a better job, timming the engine will be easier. Install a new clutch if needed while you are there.
 
By "torque to yield bolts" does that mean head studs and nuts?

Just wondering, but how does pulling the engine enable you to do a "better" job than leaving it in the car? again, I'm not trying to discredit I am just wondering.

So do you feel this is in fact a head gasket leak?
 
Why are you jumping to the head gasket? They don't give much trouble on our cars. Also an external oil leak only from a head gasket would be very unusual.

Oil runs down. Look higher up. It is far more likely to be a valve cover gasket, or perhaps something as simple as a cracked PCV hose.
 
By "torque to yield bolts" does that mean head studs and nuts? (Your quote)

They are bolts. After the final torque is applied, the bolts are tightened another 90 degres which stretches the bolt to its yield point. Hense the term "Torque to yield".

According to Dom on the FCO forums, who has done many rebuilds, he's seen leaking headgaskets on many of the V-6's he's worked on. My engine had an anoying leak that I thought was a timing cover gasket but was confirmed to be head gaskets when a Ford tech looked at it durning the replacement of my wiring harness recall.
I agree with Big Jim to check out the rear valve cover gasket to make sure it isn't the source first.

I feel alot of the Duratech head gaskets leaks could be started by poor design of the early years water pumps, causing the engine to over heat. My pump broke on a cold day in Oct. of 2002 @ 61,000 miles. This is before I was a member here and didn't know of the design flaw of the pump. Seeing my water temp gauge in the red, and not seeing and smelling coolant dripping all over, I assumed it was a sticking thermostat. I hooked up my scan tool to the engine and the coolant was at 260 degrees. This probably weakened the head gaskets seal. The engine was in the red for approx 4 to 5 minutes and the coolant in the overflow tank was starting to boil.
 
I'm asking before I "jump" to any conclusions and start buying parts.

The reason I asked head gasket is because the oil only appears to only be on the bottom of the exhaust manifold and down the block. The oil doesn't appear to be coming from above the exhaust manifold, but I will double check the points of interest you noted. The engine isn't the cleanest nor is it all that bad but I didn't notice any oil like that near the PCV valve/hose. I can't say I really looked much at the rear valve cover so I will be sure to double check that.

Thanks
 
i don't think that's a head gasket, if it were a head gasket you probably also have some running issues, or burning coolant. i would think it's a valve cover as already mentioned. check the valve covers and pcv lines and hoses before you do a major tear down for a head gasket.
 
eepals said:
They are bolts. After the final torque is applied, the bolts are tightened another 90 degres which stretches the bolt to its yield point. Hense the term "Torque to yield".
Click to expand...

oh, I didn't realize they were bolts. I did read the procedure on torquing the head, just didn't realize they were bolts instead of studs/nuts.

Since I am the second owner of the car I am not sure if the water pump was replaced though I assume it has since the car is at 130k miles and the previous (first) owner worked at a dealership, so I would assume they were aware of these issues and would have replaced it. But the water pump was something I was thinking about removing to double check and make sure it has the metal impeller.
 
The Five-Oh! said:
i don't think that's a head gasket, if it were a head gasket you probably also have some running issues, or burning coolant. i would think it's a valve cover as already mentioned. check the valve covers and pcv lines and hoses before you do a major tear down for a head gasket.
Click to expand...

yep, thats why I wanted to post this before I do anything, so I can get feedback from people who know these cars. I will check those today after work and see what I find.
 
I hope it isn't. I would like for it to be something far easier and cheaper to replace.

I've had this car for about 2 months I think and have only driven it maybe 300 miles. Of course a lot of my time has been taken up by my recent move but still, I would like to get this car on the road.
 
The Five-Oh! said:
i don't think that's a head gasket, if it were a head gasket you probably also have some running issues, or burning coolant...
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, the oil pressure in an engine is many times higher than the coolant pressure. If the gasket isn't sealing to its max, oil will find its way out.
 
Just the smell of burning oil wafting through the interior vents via the cabin air filter.
The oil ports are more towards the outsides of the castings, further from the combustion chambers, the oil tends to just leak out to the sides making a mess.
 
well, I looked more at the valve cover and the valve cover does appear to be leaking some oil. I wouldn't say as much as can be seen below the exhaust manifold but it's also quite hard to see back there. I did my best to look around both valve covers and both seem oily around the gasket area so it's probably safe to say those should be replaced, but I'm not completely satisfied that the valve cover gasket is the culprit.

I figured it doesn't matter either way if its the valve cover gasket or the head gasket, the valve cover will still need to be removed so I think I'll start by doing that. I wanted to figure out the problem and order the parts before removing things but I guess I will start removing things and get some more room for myself to see back there and see if the oil does appear to only be coming from the valve cover or if the head gasket is a problem as well.

The PCV valve and PCV hose were oily but nothing to suggest enough to leak down to the area in which I have pictured in my first post.

Are there any other suggestions on what I should do before I start tearing it apart? Or things to look for as I am tearing it apart?

If the oil appears to be just and oily film around the valve cover gasket but below the header it's more of an oil leak would you feel that would indicate it's still the valve cover gasket or do you feel that would be more of a head gasket? I mean, if it's the valve cover gasket it should be pretty wet to run all the way down below the header and onto the block right? Just trying to get an idea of what I should be looking for that all.

My fear is that I tear it apart and replace the valve cover gaskets and later find it was the head gaskets just to go through all this plus more again later. What is the probability that it is a external oil leak? How many people here have had or seen and external oil leak on the 2.5L Duratec engines? Not that I'm trying to persuade myself that it's not a head gasket I'm just wondering.

As I stated before I only drove this car for about 300 miles since I bought it and I never turned the vents on for any lengthly period of time so I haven't smelled any burning oil that I can remember, haven't even turned the car on in about a month.

Thanks for the helpful advice so far, please keep it coming.
 
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The Five-Oh! said:
if you can get the general area narrowed i'd clean the area, perhaps some break cleaner, once it's all evaporated run the car and keep and eye on it and you may be able to see where it is leaking from, or at least a better idea.
Click to expand...
Exactly. First rule of leak finding is to clean the area up so that you know for sure where the leak is coming from. You might be able to get your fingers under the area of the valve cover and sort of swipe them across the area where it seals to the head and see if you get any oil on them. I think you'll soon see why some people have suggested that doing many jobs on the engine is easier with it out of the car. Luckily changing a valve cover gasket isn't one of them though.
Karl
 
If it were different circumstances and it was in an easier spot I would go with the clean, run and see if it leaks some more. But I honestly dont feel I can get in there and clean that area, atleast not good enough. I also think this is a slow leak, so how long will I need to let it idle cause I'm not driving the car until I fix this and a couple other problems (brake job, leaking power steering lines).

I can see why some things are easier with the engine out of the car, I come from Honda's and I am used to open engine bays (I can literally stand on the ground while being in the engine bay between the header and radiator in my Civic), but I dont feel I would need to remove the engine for a head gasket job. Sure it would be easier but I don't feel it justifies pulling the engine at this time.
 
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