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DyComet

Veteran CEG'er
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
526
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Went to start the car up the other day and it was completely dead. When I turn the key the starter doesn't even turn over and the lights on my dash stay on. I checked the starter relay and replaced it with no luck. Anybody have any ideas? And yes, the battery did have 12 volts. I even tried it with a jump but the starter still doesn't turn over.
 
1) Is the CEL light on for a few seconds when you try to crank it? That would determine if there is "juice" going in and out of the PCM.

2) Check wiring from battery cable to starter.

3) Check ground which goes under the battery tray.
 
Ill buy it from ya $800 dollars

Then change the clutch position sensor :)

Jumper the sensor and see if it starts.
 
PATS light is turning on for a second then turning off. Is that normal or not? Also I tested the small wire on the back of the starter and it's getting 12 volts when I turn the key. Could this mean that the starter died?
 
PATS SHOULD go out after a 1 second illumination.. that is perfect.

The presence of +12V between the wire and ground indicates that the starter *should* turn...

the problems could be a bad starter, OR insuficient CURRENT to operate the starter... bad battery, or wiring could also STILL be a culprit, but starter is looking suspicious now.
 
Well I went through and checked the wiring and fuses/relays again. All checked out perfect. The grounds are good in the engine bay and all the wires were still tight on the back of the starter. I've already removed the starter and I'll be picking up a new one here shortly. If it doesn't work then I'll just take it back.
 
It is, but anyway...it didn't work. So now I have a new starter, new starter relay and the rest of the fuses are good. The CEL is on before I turn the key so the PCM is getting power. The starter relay clicks when I try to turn the car over so power is getting to the relay but for some reason not to the starter. Any more ideas?
 
stupid question, but could you try hooking up the old starter wires and blipping the starter with the key even though it won't be engaging the flywheel?

that would let you:
the old starter is good
the wiring is good
the fuses are good (VERIFIED)
the relay is good
AND that the battery CAN power the starter with no resistance.

if it changes simply from installing it and works no longer, look in to either:

insufficient CURRENT in the battery (bad batteries can have 12.5Vdc and still be bad!! surface charges have little indication.. I would check your voltage while attempting to start the car.. it shouldn't drop more than a couple of volts, really.)

bound flywheel or another physical reason why it doesn't turn over.
 
Alright so I've established that there is power going through the relay and that power is reaching the starter but for some reason the starter still makes no effort at all to turn. All I hear when I turn the key is the relay clicking.
 
The power to make the relay click comes from the key through the small wire. The power to make the motor run comes through the Big wire. Check for 12 volts on the Big Stud at the starter and also measure when the key is in the start position. Could be a bad battery cable where the heavy wire is bad but the pigtail that supplies power to the key and accessories is good.
 
DyComet said:
And the battery voltage is 12.5 volts so it's not that.
Click to expand...

Don't be so sure. If you can, have someone try to crank the engine while you measure battery voltage. Lots of bad batteries show 12+ V when there is no load -- what you want is voltage under load.

If it doesn't drop at all when you turn the key, I'm guessing that there is a wiring problem to the starter. Even a good battery should drop some when that much current is pulled. Also, make sure the ground is good from the battery to the chassis.

If it drops more than a couple volts, it may be the battery.
 
test the ground for the starter. if your getting power to the starter but it still doesnt turn then the circuit is open. since we know its not in the starter cause you replaced it with a known good one then you must have a bad ground from the starter. disconnect the starter power wire and check resistance from the starter case to the negative battery terminal. should be minimal resistance. let us know what you find.
 
It sounds like you are getting power to the starter, but not enough current. Just follow the path the current takes to the starter motor, starting with the battery and ending with the starter ground. Make sure the battery is good, check all wires and connnections from the battery to the solenoid to the starter, and make sure you have a good starter ground.
 
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