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Need more power!

95_Mystique

95_Mystique

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
3,970
Location
Middletown, Pa
So, i went to the drag strip this weekend and i'm not happy enough. Best time was a 15.282 @ 89.92 mph.

My mod list includes:

03 Ford Escape 3L
02 Cougar heads
AEM short ram
MSDS Y pipe
19lb injectors
Optimized TB
Gutted main cat


I'm wondering, what else should i do for more power? Would i get more out of a Tune or headers? I dont want to go crazy on the exhaust though, i like my car being quiet, but i want to hit 14's. I'm also running stock weight. Is there much i can do to reduce weight without making the car look like my Mystique (gutted)
 
I personally loooove headers, they will give you some power but without a main cat your exhaust will be pretty loud.
 
On my 3L the thing that added the most power out of intake, decat, catback and headers/y pipe was the headers and y pipe. I think it would probably give you some good gains. Although im untuned on my portmatched setup so not sure what will give more
 
YOOOO said:
This. But aren't all 24lb injects meant for oval ports? He has a hybrid
Click to expand...

Nope, grab a set out of an 'older' taurus 3L with split port intakes/heads. Actually, thinking about it I may have a set in one of my parts bins, I'd have to check.

EDIT: I think I saw in your other thread you were having IMRC issues as well. I'd get that straightened out and get back to the track, you should definitely be well into the 14's on a Hybrid 3L... For reference I ran a 15.2 @ 91 or 92mph on a 2.5L with all the bolt-ons and a tune so high 14's should be easily doable. How was the track prepped? Problems getting the car to hook up? What was your 60' time?
 
95_Mystique said:
So, i went to the drag strip this weekend and i'm not happy enough. Best time was a 15.282 @ 89.92 mph.

My mod list includes:

03 Ford Escape 3L
02 Cougar heads
AEM short ram
MSDS Y pipe
19lb injectors
Optimized TB
Gutted main cat


I'm wondering, what else should i do for more power? Would i get more out of a Tune or headers? I dont want to go crazy on the exhaust though, i like my car being quiet, but i want to hit 14's. I'm also running stock weight. Is there much i can do to reduce weight without making the car look like my Mystique (gutted)
Click to expand...

Well, you do need to do the following:

Headers
Larger exhaust - need bigger id going from the catalytic converter back to where the exhaust splits into the quasi-dual set-up. The stock resonator is a serious restriction.
Get the motor tuned

However, you need to address another restriction that nobody has pointed out: the cylinder heads. Why did you put 2.5L cylinder heads on a 3L block? The valves are bigger on the 3L heads:

2002 Cougar 2.5L Intake Valve = 1.26"
2002 Cougar 2.5 L Exhaust Valve = 1.023"
2003 Escape 3.0L Intake Valve = 1.378"
2003 Escape 3.0L Exhaust Valve = 1.181"

Get the right heads on your car to get the motor to breathe, add headers, address the exhaust restriction and then get a tune. You may or may not need to go with larger injectors. Some people do fine with the 19 lb injectors but the 3.0L technically needs larger (24 lb).
 
99Mystique ATX said:
Nope, grab a set out of an 'older' taurus 3L with split port intakes/heads. Actually, thinking about it I may have a set in one of my parts bins, I'd have to check.

EDIT: I think I saw in your other thread you were having IMRC issues as well. I'd get that straightened out and get back to the track, you should definitely be well into the 14's on a Hybrid 3L... For reference I ran a 15.2 @ 91 or 92mph on a 2.5L with all the bolt-ons and a tune so high 14's should be easily doable. How was the track prepped? Problems getting the car to hook up? What was your 60' time?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, but i'm thinking the IMRC was getting too hot and causing the secondaries to not stay open the whole time. I could feel the car kinda hesitating on the top end, like it wasnt getting enough air. When i popped the hood, the IMRC was almost too hot to touch, would that cause an issue?

I was averaging between a 2.3 and a 2.4 60', and that was pretty much rolling out of the hole (watch this video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoOrp-m5QA0&feature=g-upl&context=G2f2d009AUAAAAAAADAA



mrspindlelegs said:
Well, you do need to do the following:

Headers
Larger exhaust - need bigger id going from the catalytic converter back to where the exhaust splits into the quasi-dual set-up. The stock resonator is a serious restriction.
Get the motor tuned

However, you need to address another restriction that nobody has pointed out: the cylinder heads. Why did you put 2.5L cylinder heads on a 3L block? The valves are bigger on the 3L heads:

2002 Cougar 2.5L Intake Valve = 1.26"
2002 Cougar 2.5 L Exhaust Valve = 1.023"
2003 Escape 3.0L Intake Valve = 1.378"
2003 Escape 3.0L Exhaust Valve = 1.181"

Get the right heads on your car to get the motor to breathe, add headers, address the exhaust restriction and then get a tune. You may or may not need to go with larger injectors. Some people do fine with the 19 lb injectors but the 3.0L technically needs larger (24 lb).
Click to expand...

I didnt build this motor, the car was bought with it. I'm not going to address the heads until i have to pull the motor again (just had it out for a trans replacement 3 weeks ago). As for the exhaust and tune, i guess those will be a couple of the first things on my list.
 
99Mystique ATX said:
Nope, grab a set out of an 'older' taurus 3L with split port intakes/heads. Actually, thinking about it I may have a set in one of my parts bins, I'd have to check.
Click to expand...

Yes, you're referring to the 96-99 Duratecs, but correct me if I'm wrong they aren't compatible with an E1 injector harness. I'm sure it could be modified to work though.

mrspindlelegs said:
Well, you do need to do the following:

Headers
Larger exhaust - need bigger id going from the catalytic converter back to where the exhaust splits into the quasi-dual set-up. The stock resonator is a serious restriction.
Get the motor tuned

However, you need to address another restriction that nobody has pointed out: the cylinder heads. Why did you put 2.5L cylinder heads on a 3L block? The valves are bigger on the 3L heads:

2002 Cougar 2.5L Intake Valve = 1.26"
2002 Cougar 2.5 L Exhaust Valve = 1.023"
2003 Escape 3.0L Intake Valve = 1.378"
2003 Escape 3.0L Exhaust Valve = 1.181"

Get the right heads on your car to get the motor to breathe, add headers, address the exhaust restriction and then get a tune. You may or may not need to go with larger injectors. Some people do fine with the 19 lb injectors but the 3.0L technically needs larger (24 lb).
Click to expand...

Actually if done properly, 2.5L head > 3L head. However most don't have the money necessary to properly build a hybrid. You need to port the SVT intake manifolds, and port the head to match the larger IMs and to accept 3L valves. The higher compression with a proper tune will result in more power.
 
99Mystique ATX said:
I'm also running stock weight. Is there much i can do to reduce weight without making the car look like my Mystique (gutted)
Click to expand...

A few things done on my car, some more subtle than others

The obvious
1) Sparco seats- much lighter than stock
2) Cf hood

Not so obvious:
deleted windshield washer reservoir
deleted center belt assembly (who sits there anyways?
IMRC/secondaries deleted
lighter wheels
lighter brakes
lighter exhaust
no spare/jack
skinny driver mod lol

Other things I'm considering:
AC delete
EGR delete
CF trunk
sunroof delete
aftermarket steering wheel/airbag delete

You want to consider weight distribution as well. For drag racing, you want to keep as much weight over the front wheels as possible for maximum traction. Things like stiffer motor mounts and stiffer springs will help minimize wheel hop and weight transfer. Sticky tires and an LSD (well technically an ATB) will go a long way as well.
 
Headers don't make that much of a difference on these cars sound wise. At least in my opinion. But they do make a very good gain in HP.
 
YOOOO said:
Yes, you're referring to the 96-99 Duratecs, but correct me if I'm wrong they aren't compatible with an E1 injector harness. I'm sure it could be modified to work though.
Click to expand...

Yep, I wasn't sure of the exact year-range. I'm not 100% sure but I think they did have the uscar (EV6) style connector. I ran into this issue with finding injectors for the Cougar, I needed larger injectors with a narrow spray pattern and a uscar connector. I couldn't find them so I ended up going with a jetronic/minitmer (EV1) connector and will end up splicing the harness or repinning the connectors if I can. The E1 (returnless) harness uses the EV6 or USCAR connectors and the E0 (return) uses EV1 or jetronic/minitmer connectors.

95_Mystique said:
I'm not sure, but i'm thinking the IMRC was getting too hot and causing the secondaries to not stay open the whole time. I could feel the car kinda hesitating on the top end, like it wasnt getting enough air. When i popped the hood, the IMRC was almost too hot to touch, would that cause an issue?

I was averaging between a 2.3 and a 2.4 60', and that was pretty much rolling out of the hole (watch this video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoOrp-m5QA0&feature=g-upl&context=G2f2d009AUAAAAAAADAA
Click to expand...

You can definitely improve the 60' times and with some practice I'm sure you could get down to a 2.1 or even a 2.2 60' which would get you into the 14's. That is something you'll want to work on, it's not easy to launch a 3L Contour though, too much throttle or too fast off the clutch and you just shred the tires, too little and you run slow or bog. You want to be accelerating at the verge of spinning the tires. Does it have SVT cams? If so, you definitely want to bring 1st gear right up to redline if not close to bouncing it off the rev limiter. That'll help your time some as well too.

One of my good friends had a 3L hybrid is his SVT with stock headers, CC CAI, bat y-pipe, borla catback and he consistently ran in the 14.4-14.6 range. That did have 3L valves in the heads but it also had a full stereo with 2 12's in the trunk so it was no lightweight either. Actually, I have the heads in my basement now! :)

Like everyone has said a tune will definitely help you but make sure you get it running 100% correctly before going to a tune. If you tune a car with issues and then fix the issues you'll need to retune it as I'm sure you know. I would verify that your IMRC is ok, maybe test with another known good one or just swap it out with another one and see what happens.
 
YOOOO said:
Actually if done properly, 2.5L head > 3L head. However most don't have the money necessary to properly build a hybrid. You need to port the SVT intake manifolds, and port the head to match the larger IMs and to accept 3L valves. The higher compression with a proper tune will result in more power.
Click to expand...

If you are going to work that hard on the 2.5L heads, it might be better to just get higher compression pistons for a standard 3L long block. I could be wrong since I haven't calculated the cost of both approaches to higher compression.
 
mrspindlelegs said:
If you are going to work that hard on the 2.5L heads, it might be better to just get higher compression pistons for a standard 3L long block. I could be wrong since I haven't calculated the cost of both approaches to higher compression.
Click to expand...

You might be right about that, but from what I've gathered Ford switching from the split port design to oval port V6's is widely considered a cost saving measure, not a performance one.

Consider this: a full 3L from the factory comes with 200bhp. However, an SVT 2.5L also comes with 200bhp. Why? The cylinder heads and the intake manifolds. The greatest restriction on a 2.5 head are the valves, porting the head for 3L valves takes care of that.

Of course then you get into the argument of low rpm torque vs. peak power at high rpms, but that's just going to give everyone a headache.
 
A large part of the SVTs power comes from the tune. Thats why its recommended to run 92 octane. The SVT engine doesnt have any higher compression than a standard 3L which runs on 87 octane.
 
Well true...but it needed to be retuned to compensate for the increased air volume in the combustion chamber. The 2000 SVT did have a slightly higher compression ratio...The 3L duratec was 10.0:1 while the SVT was 10.25:1. Of course if you put the SVT head on the 3L you bump up the CR to 11.25:1 and happy things occur....with a tune
 
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