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My final troubleshooting thread

I know you said you've checked and replaced them a bunch of times, but have you checked for carbon tracking? After my crank sensor went bad and I tracked it down and replaced it my car was doing the exact same thing, turns out the brand new wires/plugs had carbon tracking on #2, but there were so few miles on the new plugs and wires (with it running so badly I was only taking it for extremely short test drives, maybe put 5 miles total on those plugs/wires) that you could barely see the line inside the wire. Honestly I don't know how I even saw it because of how faint it was, check for that as well, could have easily just been a little piece of dirt or something inside the connector on the wire.

Even if you can't see anything, it might be worth it to replace wires/plugs anyway, I only use autolite wires which come with dielectric compound inside and still ended up with carbon tracking, I filled mine with aftermarket dielectric compound just to be sure and it worked out great.
 
DanMyers said:
I know you said you've checked and replaced them a bunch of times, but have you checked for carbon tracking? After my crank sensor went bad and I tracked it down and replaced it my car was doing the exact same thing, turns out the brand new wires/plugs had carbon tracking on #2, but there were so few miles on the new plugs and wires (with it running so badly I was only taking it for extremely short test drives, maybe put 5 miles total on those plugs/wires) that you could barely see the line inside the wire. Honestly I don't know how I even saw it because of how faint it was, check for that as well, could have easily just been a little piece of dirt or something inside the connector on the wire.

Even if you can't see anything, it might be worth it to replace wires/plugs anyway, I only use autolite wires which come with dielectric compound inside and still ended up with carbon tracking, I filled mine with aftermarket dielectric compound just to be sure and it worked out great.
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I think he replaced them already.
 
I have brand new 8.5mm magnecor wires. I swapped the coil pack and newish wires from my DD that I know for sure work and it didnt make a difference.
 
Yeah, I mentioned in the first sentence I know he replaced and checked them, but again, mine did it with brand new wires because a contaminant got in between the plug and the wire, probably not during initial install, but when I kept unplugging it to test for spark.

OP: the wires you swapped from your DD, did you put those wires back on the DD after you checked with them and they ran fine? How about plugs, if you have carbon tracking and didn't swap the plugs for new ones then it might still do it regardless of what wires were on it. What about CELs? I didn't notice any, but I might have missed it if you did post any. If you are getting codes, specifically for a misfire, it's worth it to look inside the boot anyway, it's free and takes only 1 second.
 
SJon85 said:
OR should I replace the cam and crank sensor with some new autozone sensors at the cost of $50 even though those were never changed or messed with?
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What $50???

Autozone
Duralast Camshaft sensor, p/n: SU7805, is $13.99
Duralast Crankshaft position sensor, p/n: SU292, is $14.99

Quick look on Autozone repair guide... testing the crankshaft position sensor...

Autozone Repair Guide said:
The pulse wheel on the 2.0L engine is actually the flywheel, while on the 2.5L engine the pulse wheel is located on the front of the crankshaft behind the damper and just inside the front cover. The voltage created by the CKP sensor is alternating current (A/C). This voltage reading is sent to the PCM and is used to determine engine RPM, engine timing, and is used to fire the ignition coils.

TESTING

Measure the voltage between the sensor CKP sensor terminals by backprobing the sensor connector.

If the connector cannot be backprobed, fabricate or purchase a test harness.

  1. Sensor voltage should be more than 0.1 volt AC with the engine running and should vary with engine RPM.
  2. If voltage is not within specification, the sensor may be faulty.
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From the Ford factory service manual testing the CKP sensor...

CKP Sensor (+), PCM pin 21 (positive signal wire for CKP for 1998 Contour anyway)
KOEO (Key On Engine Off)=0Hz
Hot idle=410-440Hz
30mph=770-850Hz
55mph=1170-1250Hz

Then for the camshaft positon sensor CMP...

Autozone Repair Guide said:
The camshaft position sensor (CMP) is a variable reluctance sensor that is triggered by a high point on the left-hand exhaust camshaft on the 2.5L engine and a high spot on the intake camshaft on the 2.0L engine. The CMP sends a signal relating camshaft position back to the PCM which is used by the PCM to control engine timing.

TESTING

  1. Check voltage between the camshaft position sensor terminals PWR GND and CID.
  2. With engine running, voltage should be greater than 0.1 volt AC and vary with engine speed.
  3. If voltage is not within specification, check for proper voltage at the VPWR terminal.
  4. If VPWR voltage is greater than 10.5 volts, sensor may be faulty.
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Nothing for the camshaft position sensor in the Ford factory service manual.
 
Interesting how autozone has a completely different crank position sensor for a 02 cougar compared to a 2000 contour with completely different prices? The one they have pictured for the 02 coug doesn't look like it would fit at all though. I will take mine in and try to find the right one and if its only $15 then thats fine, suppose I could take it back too if it doesn't work out.

Danmyers, I was sure to blow out each boot end and the spark plug hole with my air compressor before I put dielectric grease on both ends when I installed them. No CEL at all, and My DD runs just like it did before I took the wires off.
 
Got a new crank sensor installed today, nothin. I guess a new wiring harness would be the next option right?
 
Just swapped on the engine harness from my DD and no change. Maybe I should put the stock intake back on and see what that does?
 
I knew the sensors weren't your issue, the only way they are going to be is if one is wired incorrectly (polarity is critical though its stated "it does not matter" in multiple places) or the gap mysteriously changed (gap should be about 1mm). BTW I have had my car running with Cam sensor in the crank and crank in the cam, cam sensors in both, crank sensors in both, from varying years from 95 sensors to cougar sensors.

Have you tried a new pcm yet?

If you can post up datalogs it would make it a lot easier to see whats going on. If you have xcal you can do this easily.

Also is your knock sensor in the oem location on the new motor?
 
2000ZxT said:
I knew the sensors weren't your issue, the only way they are going to be is if one is wired incorrectly (polarity is critical though its stated "it does not matter" in multiple places) or the gap mysteriously changed (gap should be about 1mm). BTW I have had my car running with Cam sensor in the crank and crank in the cam, cam sensors in both, crank sensors in both, from varying years from 95 sensors to cougar sensors.

Have you tried a new pcm yet?

If you can post up datalogs it would make it a lot easier to see whats going on. If you have xcal you can do this easily.

Also is your knock sensor in the oem location on the new motor?
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I have the ones I sent to Joey, but can't figure out how to post them on here. I am horrible with computers, think I could email them to you?

Would the knock sensor be the one that is on the block right near the AC compressor? If so I have never messed with it, just plugged the connector in and never had a problem.
 
No that is your oil pressure switch the knock sensor is the one on the back of the engine. Only reason I ask is if you moved it to a bad location it may be picking up regular noise as detonation. Very long shot but worth asking.

I should be able to open up your logs and take a look at them, I pmmed you my email. But my guess if you'll need some more logs with some more pids being recorded to tell.
 
Ok I am working on sending them over, thanks! For the PCM would I be able to return the PCM to stock and put it in my 01 coug and drive it around to see if it does the same thing?

Edit: Yea now I remember the knock sensor, its never been messed with.
 
Just got done putting the stock 3L intake manifold on, still dropping spark. Its good to know that its not my intake, because the ST220 is saaweeet. Anyways I went and pulled a new PCM at the junkyard today, but they wanted $70 with no warranty, and im not sure which one I would need.
 
Best bet is going to be to swap the pcm I took a quick look at your logs the spark is all over the place, based on what I am seeing I see no variables that would cause the ecu to retard spark, and if you are driving yourself crazy trying to find a solution with no avail my best guess would be a transistor starting to fail inside the pcm. If I were you the first thing I would rule out is the pcm, if you dont you can spend months driving yourself to the brink of insanity, seen it before.

I'll get you a list of more pids to record that would make it easier to see any issues happening.
 
Hahaha no I am not made of money. Just dont want to buy one at a JY and have it not work, since they wont take it back at all and want $70 for one without keys. 01-02 cougs are pretty hard to find in junk yards anyways, and it would have to be a 2.5L mtx as well.
 
SJon85 said:
Hahaha no I am not made of money. Just dont want to buy one at a JY and have it not work, since they wont take it back at all and want $70 for one without keys. 01-02 cougs are pretty hard to find in junk yards anyways, and it would have to be a 2.5L mtx as well.
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Well, i dunno how much they'll charge u at the dealership. But this might help: A junkyard PCM, One key & programming done @ the dealership cost me $195.
 
I just went to my dealer and they said that the new PCM has to be programmed to the car, and then the keys programmed to the PCM as well, which is $275 for both which seems pretty high. I am confused on why the PCM has to be programmed to the car? And for kicks and giggles I got them to give me a price on a new PCM, $911 plus the $275 to program it in, I told them where do I sign and who do I give a check to!!!!!

Anyways I am kind of stuck on do I go buy a PCM from the JY out of an 01-02 cougar mtx 2.5 and have the dealership rip me off on programming it? And then what happens if that PCM doesnt work etc, very annoyed with this car.
 
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