AGrayson84
CEG'er
What kind of tune were you running? And a DynoJet for the dyno?
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Modded 3L Horsepower estimate?
- Thread starter AGrayson84
- Start date
What kind of tune were you running? And a DynoJet for the dyno?
AGrayson84
CEG'er
How many of these people in this range had a good dyno tune though? Not a canned tune.
elraido
I kant speel
I just double checked that, and you are right. I know my 2011 Fusion 3.0L duratec is 240-250 depending on gas. The 04's are 201 from the factory. I guess I kind of glossed over the part where he was thinking it was 240 from the factory.
elraido
I kant speel
Tricker spend well over 4 hours on his dyno tune and he was putting down roughly the same as my car with the same mods.
AGrayson84
CEG'er
So maybe I mis-read something somewhere. Before I bought this car, I remember reading somewhere that the 2004 3.0 from the Taurus had 240 horsepower. I'm not sure where I might have read that, but everywhere I'm looking now says 200 crank horsepower. All I can find that mentions anything about 240 right now is this from Wikipedia:
Duratec 30
The Ford Duratec 30 Engine in a Mercury Sable.
The 3.0 L Duratec 30 or Mazda AJ was introduced in 1996 as a replacement for the 3.8 L (230 cu in) Essex V6 in the up-market versions of the Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable. It has 2,967 cc (181 cu in) of displacement and produces between 200 hp (150 kW) and 240 hp (180 kW). With an aluminum block and cylinder heads, it is the same basic engine used in the Jaguar S-Type, Lincoln LS, Mazda MPV, Mazda 6, Mondeo ST220 and many other Ford vehicles. It is essentially a bored-out (to 89 mm) Duratec 25 and is built in Ford Motor Company's Cleveland Engine #2 plant in Cleveland, Ohio. A slightly modified version for the Ford Five Hundred entered production at the Cleveland #1 plant in 2004.
There are two key versions of the first-generation Duratec 30:
DAMB - The Lincoln LS and Jaguar AJ30 versions have direct-acting mechanical bucket (DAMB) tappets. Output is 232 hp (173 kW) at 6750 rpm with 220 lb·ft (298 N·m) of torque at 4500 rpm.
RFF - The Taurus/Sable/Escape version uses roller finger followers (RFF) instead and produces 201 hp (150 kW) at 5900 rpm with 207 lb·ft (281 N·m) of torque at 4400 rpm.
So if all 3.0's are only 200 horsepower, was the only purpose of swapping these engines just for the extra torque only?
elraido
I kant speel
Well, you can easily go from 165 whp in a stock SVT to 225 with a good 3.0L build. That is 60 horses....but yes, the torque is more than worth it. The pull from about 2K rpm's to around 5,500 is a night and day difference between a 2.5 and 3.0L.
AGrayson84
CEG'er
Ahhhhh. Then totally my mistake on the stock 3.0L horsepower figures. I thought it was a 40 horsepower gain with a minimal torque gain that made everyone swap these things in. Well, I'll put my hopes toward 225+ whp (on a DynoJet) with my mods and a really good tune. Maybe I won't get there, but I built a nasty N/A '92 SHO some years ago (did a 3.2 swap from an ATX that I had bored to 3.3L and did every possibly mod except cams) and surprised the hell out of some people with the numbers. I'm not working with a fresh motor in this car, and don't have the variety of mods that were even available to Gen I SHO engine's (and they already had a lack of performance parts available)... but I'm going to rely on this better Y-pipe, the tune, and pure luck that I can squeeze some good numbers out of this one, I guess. Lol.
AGrayson84
CEG'er
Thanks for the suggestions and sorry for the confusion-- I obviously was under the impression that 2004 Taurus 3.0's were 240 horsepower, not 200 horsepower. Can't find where I think I read that, so my bad on the confusion regarding the stock horsepower. I will definitely try to get some of the suggestions knocked out and will check out demonsvt's mods!
elraido
I kant speel
The main mods you really want to look at are exhaust (headers, ypipe, cats etc) and an intake and a tune. That "should" get you to the 210-220 range with no issues. There are some other little bits to get you more (ST220 manifolds, throttle body etc) but they are more expensive. But you are right in getting an 04 motor...they were better over all vs the older ones (better cooling passages etc). There is a reason why my red 3.0L only had like 195 hp tuned and my silver one had 226.
BAD SVT
Addicted CEG'er
Yeah the most accurate drivetrain loss figure is probably 17.5%, I was over-estimating it a tad. But 17.5% would make a 200 crank horsepower engine put down around 165 horsepower. The whole specific percentage of drivetrain loss isn't 100% accurate and doesn't hold in every scenario, but gives a pretty general idea on crank horsepower versus wheel horsepower when comparing stock power levels versus modified power levels.
Yep, the 2004 3.0 Taurus Duratec engines made 240 crank horsepower. Crank horsepower is not affected by the drivetrain, only the wheel horsepower is. Horsepower at the wheels in the only number of the two that fluctuates as you transfer the same engine between different cars. Only if you're changing cylinder heads, upper intake manifolds, etc does the crank horsepower change, but otherwise with a full 3.0 motor, if it makes 240 crank horsepower in a Taurus, it makes 240 crank horsepower in a Contour, Cougar, Lamborghini Diablo, and Geo Metro. Swapping an engine from an automatic transmission to a manual transmission results in [/U]higher[/U] wheel horsepower. So going from an automatic Taurus to a manual Contour should gain just a few fwhp. Again, crank horsepower remains the same.
And based on the crank horsepower of 280 and following the 17.5% drivetrain loss figure, it would only require 231 fwhp to achieve 280 at the crank.Again, the drivetrain loss percentage only holds so much water though, but if you use that figure that is the result you'll get.
By the way, just as an FYI you have the math slightly backwards. You can't take the whp estimate and multiply it by 1.18 or 1.175 to get the estimated crank horsepower. You have to take the estimated crank horsepower and multiply it by .82 (for 18% dt loss) or by .825 (for 17.5% dt loss). It makes a slight difference in your results, and the larger the numbers you're dealing with, the further off your calculation will be.
I meant whp going up, not crank. I knew that.
It's cool. I was slightly baffled by your theory. Just like elraido, it took me a while to realize you think they have 240hp. But it's all good. Good luck on the build.
jaged
Veteran CEG'er
always tuned on the dyno for me. first motors were on a dynapack and then a dynojet. all depends on how hot/humid it is that day, your elevation
rexxdoggy
Hard-core CEG'er
Shoot, I wish it were 240 horsepower. I've been readingand catching up and was thinking this guy is crazy.
Anyways, I have an 05 full 3.0L swap. At the time I dynod, I had an open element intake, sho shop y pipe with cat delete, stock SVT catback with resonator delete, and I had ••••ty ignition and no tune, I dynod at 192 whp and 194 wtq. I'm finally Gettin around to street tuning the car, and the only difference really since then are "better" wires and new plugs and coil, as well as a Borla 2.5 catback exhaust now.
Anyways, I have an 05 full 3.0L swap. At the time I dynod, I had an open element intake, sho shop y pipe with cat delete, stock SVT catback with resonator delete, and I had ••••ty ignition and no tune, I dynod at 192 whp and 194 wtq. I'm finally Gettin around to street tuning the car, and the only difference really since then are "better" wires and new plugs and coil, as well as a Borla 2.5 catback exhaust now.
AGrayson84
CEG'er
What exactly is the advantage of the ST220 manifold? I was trying to find info on that last night and couldn't really find anything on here about why it's better. Just larger ports from the factory, or is it that since it is aluminum you can port it out more than you can a plastic/composite Taurus intake? What were the differences between your current 3L and your previous one that put done such good numbers?
AGrayson84
CEG'er
Thanks for the good luck man!
Yeah I always do indoor dyno's. I've been on Dynapacks before and love those for higher horsepower cars (you don't have to worry about wheel spin), but Dynojets obviously give more "universal" comparisons. So it doesn't really seem like, from what I'm hearing, a tune will create much more than 10 horsepower on these engines regardless of mods. That's kind of a bummer. Was expecting to be able to squeeze 15-20 more horsepower out of it with a tune, once the headers are added.
Yeah, apparently everyone was thinking I was crazy.... and I was thinking everyone was crazy for believing a 240 horsepower engine would make less than 240 crank horsepower lol. What software did you decide to go with for tuning? I have a Superchips 4-bank Eliminator with a remote switch to change tunes. It's a bit out-dated, but I think I want to keep it for the real-time switching between tunes.
elraido
I kant speel
It flows a LOT more. There was a quick volume test (I think CSVT49 did one for his turbo build) and there was a surprising increase in the amount of flow it can do. I can't remember if it increased velocity vs the stock 3.0L one as well.
Well my "current" 3.0L is a 2011 Ford Fusion.
The Pudmobile vs the Blackcoog build, there was a bunch of various issues. Pud's had a much better exhaust (ypipe back), newer engine, better intake, better tune.AGrayson84
CEG'er
Oh wow, so I'll keep my eyes open for an ST220 intake below $300. Should I also do the ST220 lower intake manifold, or what are some good options for the LIM on a 3.0? Any porting work recommended?
elraido
I kant speel
I am not sure what it entails....it has been a while since I read up on all of it.
BAD SVT
Addicted CEG'er
There isn't any benefit to using an ST220 LIM. A sho-shop worked LIM is the best available as far as i know for split ports. They've ceased making them tho. But you may be able to stumble upon one that's being sold.
Edit- Forgot you're going full 3L. A simple 3L LIM will suffice.
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SQuAlL-NT
CEG'er
Someone has measured the volume of the UIM options for our 3L
http://www.contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?50028-Honed-3-liter-UIM&p=728885#post728885
http://www.contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?50028-Honed-3-liter-UIM&p=728885#post728885
rexxdoggy
Hard-core CEG'er
I'm using good ol SCT software on the laptop and running it through my Xcal 2. I need to get an o2 bung welded in so I can install my AEM to start tuning.