K1, Pauter, or OEM rods?

[CSVT#49]

I'm having difficulty choosing what rod I want to buy/use. I've narrowed it down to these three options. K1 Technologies or Pauter Machine 4340 H-beam billet rods. I've heard both are good rods, but Pauter will stand up to more power. In either case it does not appear that I will be pushing the limits on either rod. Or the last option just leave the stock 2005 Escape rods in the engine. Plenty of turbo cars have been built and it appears that no one has had problems :shrug:

No matter what option I choose I will be replacing the rod bearings with Clevite 77 bearings. Below are the details on the aftermarket rods. As of right now I am leaning towards buying the K1 rods or sticking with the Escape rods... more so towards buying the K1's.

K1 Technologies
P/N: FH5440AGFB6
Center to Center: 5.440"
Bore Size: 2.086"
Wrist Pin: 0.827" (21mm)
Bolt Size: 3/8"
Weight: 535g
Price: $619+shipping
Details on process:
Billet 4340 Steel H Beam connecting rods. Closely monitored material mechanical properties for optimum performance. Designed and finish honed in the USA. Sizes held to some of the tightest tolerances in the industry, +/- .0001” and +/- 1 gram per end. Shot peened for improved fatigue life. Bronze wrist pin bushings. Exclusively using ARP 2000 fasteners.

Pauter Machine
P/N: FFOR-210-530-1380F
Length: 5.433" (I'm assuming this is center to center)
Bore Size: 2.086"
Wrist Pin: 0.827" (21mm)
Weight: 591g
Price: $1188+shipping
Details on process:
E4340 vacuum melt chrome moly forging – CNC machined, Heat-treated to Rockwell C36; full coverage shotpeened; end-to-end balanced in sets. Each rod comes standard with ARP 2000 bolts rated at 220,000 psi tensile strength. Aluminum-bronze wrist pin bushings (standard.) EDM pressure-fed oiling to pin (available at extra cost.)

 

[JoeM]

Is money and Object?

If not, Pauter. They are a bit heavier (Rotational mass wise) but, with the turbo it should not make a difference.


If you are looking to make the fastest possible Rev, GO with the K1, Lighter, half the price.

However, they may turn out to be a bit weaker than Pauter,and stronger than OEM.

 

[CSVT#49]

Well money is and isnt an object. I'm willing to spend what is necessary to do this build right. However bottomline is I want only what I need to make this build a reliable one... something I can drive and enjoy and have piece of mind that I can push it to the limits and not have to worry.

 

[FIND]

how much horsepower are you looking to make. IIRC, even the K1 rods are substantially stronger than the stock rods, but stockers are good up to 15psi arent they?

better still, keep the stock rods, and use the money you save to get the rotating assembly all balanced and some porting done.

 

[pwntbywombat]

have you looked into getting your blocked bored and or stroked for a better bore to stroke ratio, and or just for more displacement? if money is no object, that would certainly help you out if you are building for big power. the more money you put into the bottom end of your motor the better.

 

[CSVT#49]

how much horsepower are you looking to make. IIRC, even the K1 rods are substantially stronger than the stock rods, but stockers are good up to 15psi arent they?

better still, keep the stock rods, and use the money you save to get the rotating assembly all balanced and some porting done.

have you looked into getting your blocked bored and or stroked for a better bore to stroke ratio, and or just for more displacement? if money is no object, that would certainly help you out if you are building for big power. the more money you put into the bottom end of your motor the better.

Well after I read up on the sinter forging process paticular that of connecting rods I am not convinced there is any reason to move to an aftermarket rod. Here was a pretty informative article,
linky

And from the boys at SuperChevy, linky

 

[2000ZxT]

Wow sweet write up on sinter forging.

Are you sure the new pistons will use the same wrist pins?

 

[crewchiefpro]

Don't use stock rods on a turbo if you want to push it. They will not live ( experience here, not opinion ).

When you about double the HP then you need to double the rod strength. Get good rod bolts such as ARP.

 

[2000ZxT]

Yeah, I don't think it would even work though.

With spending as much money as you are why cheap out? You're spending money in the wrong places by getting a big bore LIM and a st220 manny then not getting forged rods.....

 

[Rara]

In the case of the Duratecs, tensile loading of the rods is far more likely to break them than compressive loading. Or more simply, peak rpm, and faster revving are what does more to break connecting rods than the power loads directly.

I don't recall your plans with this particular engine, but so far, of the engines built "here" on CEG, only a handful have really "needed" aftermarket forged rods. The thing is, there are other factors involved with the contour that end up limiting you before you "need" forged rods. The lack of traction means you can't really put down massive power in a useful manner. Cranking the rpm limit is a crapshoot for several reasons, not the least of which is a floated valve (even the ST220 valve springs don't have a higher rate than the rest). The Duratec does rev pretty quick though, especially with a light flywheel, etc etc. which can be a big factor in the durability of the rods. The big power loads come more into play here too though, as the rotating assembly gets acelerated faster with more power, this is also where stronger rod bolts come into play, since they don't do much when the piston is pushing down on the rods . . .

It's tough for me to make a clear cut recommendation. The factory rods are likely to be strong enough for whatever you are planning, and definately won't have fitment issues.

The aftermarket rods will definately give you some factor of safety in strength, but you open yourself up to headaches of mis-manufactured parts, and the resulting problems with the engine build and trying to get problems fixed. Plus there is the significant extra cost just to buy them.

You have to weigh the pros and cons specific to your situation and your plans and decide whats most important for you. And at the end of the day, most likely either choice would perform just fine in the application.

 

[2000ZxT]

So the Diamond piston's wrist pin is the same size as stock?

 

[CSVT#49]

Ugh... I'm tired of debating in my head. I'm on the verge of just going with Pauter rods and being done with it. I've been pondering this question for over 2 weeks now.

I didn't want to drop the bomb in this thread or even at this point in time. That said I'm shooting to put down more then I've ever seen on CEG, 475-500whp. I want to rival what my Camaro puts down at the crank (dyno tested at my builder's shop at 503BHP). Now don't go flaming me yet, I'm not going to be running that on the street (at least not yet anyway). As we all know it is not practical and will never get to the ground, or rather no one has been able to put it to the ground. I plan on running at a reduced boost pressure to put me at around 380-400 on the street with an EBC to limit boost even further in lower gears. I want to build towards and obtain 475-500whp so that in the future if I find a way to build the transmission, subframe, and suspension to work in my favor I have the power proven out with my setup and ready to be unleashed.

Now with all that said I want to be smart about what parts I'm spending the big money on. If K1 rods can handle the power levels I'm looking to get to then there is no sense in spending double that for rods that I will never push the limits on, hence all the questions in here. I do not know much about K1 Technologies and what they produce so I wanted to see what people knew before I dropped ~$650 with them.

I guess before I just jump into bed with Pauter a phone call is in order to K1 and talk to there techs and then call Pauter as well. I'll let you guys know what I end up hearing from both and update this thread accordingly.