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Just my thoughts, what do you think?

95_Mystique

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
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Why Pre'98 Zetec's are better...
Bigger aftermarket (cams, valve train, turbos, LSD, stroker kits, ect), better gas mileage, no oiling problem (like that of the 2.5), less torque (less broken parts :P), better final drive ratio, lighter, easier to work on, higher revving (if built right), fewer trans linkage problems, better diff., can make just as much power as a modded 2.5, reliability, traction control (if you want it), and i know there are a few things i'm missing that i'll think of later.


This isnt to start a fight between 2.0 and 2.5 owners, or base model and SVT owners. Just stating my opinion and thoughs. What do you guys think?
 
Well here are my thoughts... I don't know much about the Zetec (never done any research on it) but I do not like 4 cylinders. Remember that Escort GT project I was telling you about? Well I finally did some research on it and found a website for performance parts and it said something along the lines of: "Upgrade the cams, valves, springs, heads, pistons, and add a turbo and you'll be at 200HP." 200? I'm doing all that on my small block V8 and I'll be at 450HP without a turbo. Don't get me wrong I like 4 cyl just not so much for power they are great little cars for road track. I just think 6 cylinders are more balanced. (Maybe not Contours seeing as you can build a Zetec to the same performance as a Duratec reasonably until the 6 loses traction, until #49 of course). If you want to do an engine build start with a better platform like a V8 RWD. Just sharing my thoughts.
 
Good thoughts, but most V8's weight a lot more. A Zetec can make well over 400 HP. I do however agree, that you cant beat the torque you feel and the sound you hear from a V8.
 
Well yes you can get alot of power out of some 4 cyl but another thing I see that bugs me is that it seems like it costs twice as much to get half the power as a V8. I feel the same way with 6 cyl too. Thats what people who grew up in the tuner era don't understand (myself included but I learned quickly about V8s) you add headers to a 4 cyl and gain 5HP you take a bend out of the exhaust system on a big block and gain 5HP. See my point?
 
<insert dead horse animated gif here>

It takes a lot of work and money just to get a zetec to regular 2.5L duratec performance. Much less work and money gets you a 3L installed. SVT Contours are inexpensive and if in good condition require no extra work.

No one really knows how severe or frequent the oiling issues on the 2.5's is. We just don't have the numbers. I am in the camp that believes the issue is exaggerated. It's impossible to prove either way and pointless to debate at this stage. But a heavily modded engine will almost certainly have a greater failure rate when completed by most amateurs/hobbyists.

For the average Contour enthusiast who wants a quick, balanced DD, a well-kept SVT Contour is the way to go.

For the fringe modders, well.. it's possible to make anything fast. So whatever floats their boats.
 
<insert dead horse animated gif here>

It takes a lot of work and money just to get a zetec to regular 2.5L duratec performance. Much less work and money gets you a 3L installed. SVT Contours are inexpensive and if in good condition require no extra work.

no it doesnt. Intake, exhaust, AFPR, and UDP will get you to about 125WHP with the Zetec. that power with less weight puts it equal to or better than a stock SE V6, add a header if your still concerned. all that, including the header can be done for about $350-$400. You can barely get headers and y-pipe for the V6 for that price. of course if you are felling gutsy you can build a turbo setup instead of installing a header and with just a T3 turbo make 250WHP. no cams, cam gears, head work, etc required. that amount of power, and with no traction issues of the V6, the car should be in the low 13s or even the high 12s.

If you really want to go all out you can build the engine to handle power levels upwards of 500WHP and spend less than what it costs to build the V6 to hold that much power.


as for the comment about V8s being the better starting engine, sure, but how many V8 Contours are there? oh yeah, none. part of the reason they gain power easier is because they have 4 extra cylinders, which means 4 extra power strokes per revolution.
 
as for the comment about V8s being the better starting engine, sure, but how many V8 Contours are there? oh yeah, none. part of the reason they gain power easier is because they have 4 extra cylinders, which means 4 extra power strokes per revolution.

Which is exactly my point. Minus the contour part.
 
But your point had nothing to do with the conversation....

Fair enough. Then let me share my thoughts on the topic. Like Striker said V8's put out more power because they have 4 extra power strokes, well sixes have 2 extra. Although you are correct the Duratec does not have as many aftermarket parts I still believe the Duratec is a better bang, not necisarilly for the buck, option. If the Duratec was in a Focus it would have plenty of aftermarket but it's not so we have to go out on a limb and make our own performance. Striker also said the Zetec doesn't have the traction issue the Duratec has and thats because it's a four cylinder, it doesn't have much torque and torque is what gets the load moving. If the Duratecs could transfer the power to the ground they would be fantastic. All in all I have a car for performance and have my Mercury V6 because it is a blast to drive I don't need to go crazy with it but the traction issue is definitally a reason that would make me want a Zetec. If you have the money and want to put into the engine and want a car for road track I would probably say the Zetec is the better option.

Edit: I take back that last part. I can't state an opinion without any research. I only know that people are getting Focus' to put out alot of power but look at #49 build. So without personal experience with both I have no clue
 
Ken Block's fiesta has a 2.0 4 cyl turbo. I bet it's a cosworth motor (haven't done the research) and is capable of 850HP but limited to 650. That makes me :drool: and I'm a huge fan of v6's.
 
Fair enough. Then let me share my thoughts on the topic. Like Striker said V8's put out more power because they have 4 extra power strokes, well sixes have 2 extra. Although you are correct the Duratec does not have as many aftermarket parts I still believe the Duratec is a better bang, not necisarilly for the buck, option. If the Duratec was in a Focus it would have plenty of aftermarket but it's not so we have to go out on a limb and make our own performance. Striker also said the Zetec doesn't have the traction issue the Duratec has and thats because it's a four cylinder, it doesn't have much torque and torque is what gets the load moving. If the Duratecs could transfer the power to the ground they would be fantastic. All in all I have a car for performance and have my Mercury V6 because it is a blast to drive I don't need to go crazy with it but the traction issue is definitally a reason that would make me want a Zetec. If you have the money and want to put into the engine and want a car for road track I would probably say the Zetec is the better option.

Edit: I take back that last part. I can't state an opinion without any research. I only know that people are getting Focus' to put out alot of power but look at #49 build. So without personal experience with both I have no clue
Finally, a new SMART new guy. While I do disagree with a few of your points, it's just too damn erly and I was up too damn late last night to rebuttal now. I'm sure Dan (Striker2) will say exactly what I was thinking anyway.
Ken Block's fiesta has a 2.0 4 cyl turbo. I bet it's a cosworth motor (haven't done the research) and is capable of 850HP but limited to 650. That makes me :drool: and I'm a huge fan of v6's.
Nope, it's a Duratec with Cossie-made internals.
 
well the Zetec actually makes quite a bit of torque, almost always as much or torque than power. as an example, my old turbo Zetec made 200WHP and 220WTQ (it was faster than a lightly modded late SN95 GT) with a T3 60 trim turbo running 10PSI and on a dyno that is notorious for being about 10% low compared to a dynojet. (not saying one is better or more accurate than the other, just that most people use a dynojet and this dyno reads low compared to them). now that much torque with the V6 comes on quite low in the RPM band and causes traction issues, where with the Zetec it ramps up to that much as the boost comes on (started building boost with that turbo by 2500RPMs and had full boost by 3500). this means i could launch it hard at 4000RPMs and not have any traction issues, the clutch would grab, the tires would chirp and i would be off and immediately start to build boost (and it would throw your ass in the seat harder than even my 3L).

as far as cost, I rebuilt the engine, built the turbo setup, installed Ksports, pre98 SVT body kit, built the trans with a torsen, all for about $5500. now i admit that i should have used different pistons, but thats a different matter and it would have added only about $100 to the cost (in fact for that power level i could have left the engine stock but i was planning on going for over 300WHP). now at the time medium mileage stock SVTs in good condition were selling for more than that. so i could build a Zetec to much greater power and handling levels for less than a stock SVT, without the drawbacks that come with the SVT (traction, weak diffs, and spun rod bearings). and i could still get almost 30MPG on the highway, even with having fun, so which would you chose? I know where my money would go.

I admit that its not as easy to build a Zetec to that power for less than a good condition SVT these days, but if your not planning on over 250WHP then it can be done on the stock block which will save quite a bit of money (250WHP is really about the limit of this platform without going crazy trying to take care of wheel spin anyways). If you do it with a pre98 you dont even have to change out the diff, although i still would just for the increased traction from the LSD, but its not necessary to prevent it from blowing up.

you mention CSVT#49 and his build, do you know how much he has spent (or is going to spend total since he isnt finished yet) on his build? im not positive but i seem to recall $13,000 being thrown around as a rough estimate. If he is still only running 13s after all that then it seems like wasted money to me, since 13s can be had in a Zetec with 200-250WHP. im not saying his build isnt epically awesome, just that if thats all the car runs there are much cheaper ways to get there, including a turbo Zetec which is way more fun than a 3L (I've had both, care to take a guess at which one i enjoyed more).
 
Desiato;862747 It takes a lot of work and money just to get a zetec to regular 2.5L duratec performance. Much less work and money gets you a 3L installed. SVT Contours are inexpensive and if in good condition require no extra work.QUOTE said:
I disagree, I searched and searched for an SVT and cheapest I could find was $4000.00. My 99 SE was only $1100.00. Plus, lets not forget gas mileage and parts are cheap. Now my buddys 97 mystique is so easy to work on and timing the motor is a breeze. He paid $900 bux for it. now thats cheap
 
no it doesnt. Intake, exhaust, AFPR, and UDP will get you to about 125WHP with the Zetec. that power with less weight puts it equal to or better than a stock SE V6, add a header if your still concerned. all that, including the header can be done for about $350-$400.

What's stock SE 2.5L Duratec WHP? 145? Depending on the actual weight and power differences, the stock SE 2.5 is still ahead by 7-9% in terms of HP/Pound. $400 gets you a lot of SVT bits now, which including injectors and PCM would push it into SVT territory. The four wheel disc brakes of the Duratec Contour are a nice bonus too.

of course if you are felling gutsy you can build a turbo setup instead of installing a header and with just a T3 turbo make 250WHP. no cams, cam gears, head work, etc required. that amount of power, and with no traction issues of the V6, the car should be in the low 13s or even the high 12s.

The quarter mile numbers are all theory. It's unfortunate that your car didn't have an opportunity to prove it. That said, launches aren't everything and the 250-300WHP+ Duratec Contours seem to put plenty to the ground once they're moving. For my money, I'd take the Duratec, if I wanted to go into that territory -- which I don't and won't.

Personally, I think the value of 0-60 and quarter mile numbers are waaaay overrated in car communities. The realm of driving enthusiasm is much broader than drag strips. We all know this platform doesn't excel at the drag strip; anyone with aspirations there should move on to something else. Therefore whatever launch advantage a turbo Zetec may or may not have over a turbo Duratec is largely irrelevant to the strength of the platform.

If you really want to go all out you can build the engine to handle power levels upwards of 500WHP and spend less than what it costs to build the V6 to hold that much power.

That's well into fringe modder territory. And when it comes to a Contour Zetec, very theoretical because it's never come close to happening. I'm really not one to debate it, but it seems to me that a Turbo Duratec will get you closer to that number for less money though; a beaten path other Contour owners have been down before.

I stand by my argument that for the vast majority of Contour enthusiasts, an SE or SVT Duratec is your best bet for a quick, reliable DD.
 
Personally, I think the value of 0-60 and quarter mile numbers are waaaay overrated in car communities. The realm of driving enthusiasm is much broader than drag strips. We all know this platform doesn't excel at the drag strip; anyone with aspirations there should move on to something else. Therefore whatever launch advantage a turbo Zetec may or may not have over a turbo Duratec is largely irrelevant to the strength of the platform.

My thought's EXACTLY. Hints why most cars now are judged on their Nurrenburg (spelling?) lap times. No one mentions their drag times anymore really.

But I will say this, Striker2's opinion is the only one that I would truly listen to. He has had both, a modded Zetec and a 3L Duratec. If he says the Zetec was more fun to drive, I would take listen to that statement very seriously. But unless you have owned both, I don't really think you can make accusations over which one is better. If you have owned both and I missed that, I am sorry.

But the fact is that people need to look at more than just drag times. To tell which CAR is better, then a judge of lap times on a road course would be more suited. You would see the power to weight ratio more clearly in something like that. If the Zetec is lighter, it will give a better Front to Rear weight ratio letting the car corner better. But the low end torque of a V6 will pull you out of the corners better. There are so many more factors which are involved in a course with turns than in a straight line. With that being said, it is VERY hard to compare those numbers, especially because the cars should have similar modifications for braking and suspension.

All I am trying to say is comparing drag times is NOT a good argument. If your turbo zetec which makes 250 whp and a turbo duratec makes 350 whp, yeah they might still only go down the strip in 13 seconds, due to traction issues taking off. But compare those cars on a road course with the same driver, I would venture to say the Duratec would own face on the Zetec. But like previously stated, my opinion is technically invalid because I haven't owned a Zetec, I am just basing my answer off of theory.

I hope that made sense. I am in Physics right now and half paying attention to the projector and half to this.
 
I am glad this topic came up it has alot of good info without it turning into a fight about which is better. I agree with you guys in the sense that drag numbers are over rated. The reason I love this car is the way it handles and the way it is underestimated. I haven't driven many cars but when I got this and would take a turn at high speeds (at a practice track I have near me) it was awesome, I didn't even worry about the car losing grip or squealing tires. If I drive my friends cars thay feel heavy. For instance me and one of my freinds traded cars for like 5 min my 99 non SVT Duratec for his 91 or so? BMW 325i. All my car nut friends love his car and I drove it and liked it but not as much, Afterwards we traded back and I asked him what he thought and he kinda smiled and laughed... but I don't think he'll ever admit he liked it. Whether Duratec or Zetec I believe I would love this car This is probably one of the few cars that I don't care how fast it goes from a dead stop but around the turns. I'm building my 3L port match and doing little performance stuff while it's apart and just gonna have a fun car to drive. Speed is not my concern for this fantastic ride.
 
i don't see how the pre98 zetec is any better than the post98 VCT zetec. they are both capable engines. lets not forget that the FSVT is a VCT zetec, the VCT version just requires a little more pampering. and i can see the pros and cons for both the zetec and the duratec. i love my zetec. yes i complain about it all the time but out of all of the cars with I4's i've owned the zetec is the best. and out of all the cars i've owned the only one that i have enjoyed driving more was my SHO. and after struts and springs i can push my contour just as fast as my SHO on long windy roads, the only difference is it's not fast in the straight stretches. and that has nothing to do with the engine, i just have very little done to the engine. i feel very confident that once i have everything i want done to my zetec done it will more than capable to perform as well as my old SHO. and these days the old phrase there's no replacement for displacement is a load of crap. there are to many 500hp+ I4's running around for that still to be a valid statement.
 
i don't see how the pre98 zetec is any better than the post98 VCT zetec. they are both capable engines. lets not forget that the FSVT is a VCT zetec, the VCT version just requires a little more pampering. and i can see the pros and cons for both the zetec and the duratec. i love my zetec. yes i complain about it all the time but out of all of the cars with I4's i've owned the zetec is the best. and out of all the cars i've owned the only one that i have enjoyed driving more was my SHO. and after struts and springs i can push my contour just as fast as my SHO on long windy roads, the only difference is it's not fast in the straight stretches. and that has nothing to do with the engine, i just have very little done to the engine. i feel very confident that once i have everything i want done to my zetec done it will more than capable to perform as well as my old SHO. and these days the old phrase there's no replacement for displacement is a load of crap. there are to many 500hp+ I4's running around for that still to be a valid statement.

u're missing the point bro. reread the thread.
 
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