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if no flashing CEL, is it a misfire?

G

getsum111

Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late.
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Messages
4,188
Location
Pillaging in Freedom, PA.
Here's my story, I have really bad hesitation/bucking, from just off idle to about 3500 RPM's. After that, it's fine. I can drive it if I'm really granny like with the throttle, but give it any gas, and .....:censored: . It really feels like a misfire, but I HAVE NO CODES, and the CEL doesn't flash. It does come on at start-up, like it's supposed to.
So far I have replaced fuel filter, plugs (APP764), wires w/ new magnecors, new rear O2 sensor, swapped my MAF w/ a known working one, swapped my coil for a known working one, tested the impedance of the CPS, TPS, run a new ground cable for the battery, cleaned the MAF, cleaned the UIM/LIM by removing, replaced several suspect/leaking vaccuum hoses, and took it to Ford for a "real-time" scan that was not what I thought it would be.:nonono:
Tonight I'm trying out another brand of plug wires from Advance. But if it was misfiring, wouldn't the CEL flash? Any ideas?
 
Did you check your IMRC? My symptoms are identical to yours. If I give it any more than just a slight throttle it bucks and hesitates very badly. It is kind of dangerous trying to pull into an intersection fast because it will hesitate and cars are right up on me. My IMRC is dead so it can't open my runners but it has no CEL. I'm in the process of ordering transistors to fix my IMRC, 65 cents off ebay. As soon as I get the transistors I will fix my IMRC and definately post back if it solves the problem.
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getsum111 said:
.... It really feels like a misfire, but I HAVE NO CODES, and the CEL doesn't flash. It does come on at start-up, like it's supposed to.... But if it was misfiring, wouldn't the CEL flash? Any ideas?
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Yes, if it is msifiring, it should flash. Now, as for not storing codes, check to make sure Fuse 11 is not missing or broken or loose in the Power Distribution Box next to the battery.

I wonder if it is a fuel pump issue. I'm not sure if a code will be stored if the pump malfunctions (not electrical malfunction but a clogged sock or filter).
 
I took it for the "real time scan" (quotes aimed at Ford, not you Tony:laugh: ). They said they hadn't heard of a PID????, but I asked them about the fuel pressure, and they said it was fine? When I say I have no codes, I meant that none show up when I scan it. The computer will show/store a code for other issues that I have fixed, just not for this particular one. That's what I meant.
 
getsum111 said:
I took it for the "real time scan" (quotes aimed at Ford, not you Tony:laugh: ). They said they hadn't heard of a PID????, but I asked them about the fuel pressure, and they said it was fine? When I say I have no codes, I meant that none show up when I scan it. The computer will show/store a code for other issues that I have fixed, just not for this particular one. That's what I meant.
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I hope you didn't pronouce "Peed". They should know what P-I-D is. If not, you need to talk to the Service Manager. In addition, anytime a CEL code is stored, the freeze frame data is also stored. Freeze frame data means what the engine parameters were when the code was logged. For instance, it might show that the cylinder one was low in fuel or the fuel pressure was low or something to that effect. I really can't believe (not directed at you) that the tech does not know what a PID or Freeze frame is. That is so fundamental to the PCM OBD II emissions system. As previously advised, you may want to "borrow" a Actron 9145 PID and freeze frame capable (or maybe a 9175-just freeze frame capable) from Advance or Autozone and scan it yourself.
 
LOL @ Peed.


That's what I assumed you were talking about when I made the appt. I told the service manager what was happening, and used the exact words "real time scan" repeatedly, since I personally didn't have experience w/ any. But anyway, is that the version autozone w/ rent out, I thought they gave me a different model last time. I'll call them and see which one I can get. I'll let you know what they say. Thanks alot for all the help. Maybe you could take over teh local Ford dealer service garage....:laugh: .
 
getsum111 said:
... Maybe you could take over teh local Ford dealer service garage....:laugh: .
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LOL. And have you guys coming and asking for some "peed" data or "frozen" data. :laugh:

In all seriousness, to get PIDs or freeze frame data, you need the Actron 9145 (or 9150). If all you want is freeze frame data, then the 9175 will do.

Note that the 9135 and 9125 will only read the codes and erase them. These two will not scan nor show freeze frames.
 
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Doh!, I just thought of something, Tony. How will the scanner help as I am not setting any codes? I have the hesitation, but no CEL. Will that scanner still help "read" what the engine is doing even though there is no code, or does it need a code to trigger the freeze-frrame or PID?
 
Misfiring will not always show a CEL or any codes. My car misfired like crazy for about 3 months or so and never a CEL.
 
So how did you figure out what is was, or did it stop w/ new plugs/wires. What I mean is how do I know if it's a misfire or caused by something else? Thanks.:cool:
 
getsum111 said:
Doh!, I just thought of something, Tony. How will the scanner help as I am not setting any codes? I have the hesitation, but no CEL. Will that scanner still help "read" what the engine is doing even though there is no code, or does it need a code to trigger the freeze-frrame or PID?
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The first thing is to make sure Fuse 11 is good and not loose in the Power Distribution Box. Nevertheless, even if it is missing, you will get PIDs. PIDS are real time and depending on the type of scanner will show the parameters every "few" (could be 5 or 10) minutes or so. Once again, I find it hard to believe the car can misfire that badly and not have a code stored somewhere. Note, even if the CEL is not lighted, there could be an intermittent or pending code.
 
The fuse is good, I checked last night. Plus, I'm not Positive it is a misfire. It's a bucking/hesitation that FEELS like a misfire, but that's the best I can describe it. I didn't get to get the wires last night, hopefully tonight. Also, another CEG'r suggested I check my connections to the fuel pump under the seat. He told me that he has heard of the connection being melted/fugged up and it caused this same problem. What's getting me so confused is why only a LOWER RPM's, not higher ones as I would expect.:shrug:
 
Okay, let's try this again.

You have a bucking, missing and jerking condition during right after idle to about 3,000 RPM. And there are no CEL codes. You have replaced a missing hose at the EGR valve.

Go through this list again.
1) Vacuum leaks (hoses or UIM/LIM manifold gasket)
2) Spark plugs (or gap) or sp wires
3) Ignition coil or related wiring
4) Crankshaft Position Sensor or related wiring
5) Camshaft Position Sensor or related wiring
6) Low or high fuel pressure (fuel filter, pump or wiring, pump sock/filter)
7) Fuel injector or related wiring.
 
Best of luck to you. Mine did this and made me so mad because I could never figure it out. I checked and replaced everything that i could think of and never figured it out. however mine was also extremley rich and had serious power problems too. The good news is that I finally did fix it after at least $1000 and near 100 hours of labor by me and my dad and friends. The bad news is that by fixing it i mean rolling the car, which was the best fate for it as the problem had everyone baffled and was, for lack of better words, unfixable. I'd be intrested to see if yours can be fixed though, as your car dosn't have near all the problems my piece of junk did so there may be hope for it.
 
We had a meet, and a few guys came out after. One (shavedsvt) let me usee his Ford Racing wires, MOST of teh problem is now gone. We also tested the volts in vs. volts going back out from the fuel pump, and Grant said it's starting to go. Man, I can't believe I paid so much more for "the BEST" wires, and this is what I get for it. Gonna call them Monday and try to get my money back. Magnecor my :censored: . I'll post more when I get my own wires.
 
Damn, now I owe Todras, Tour de Force, and you all an apology for not switchin' wires earlier:eek: , and I feel dumb for wanting to be loyal to Magnecor.:blackeye:
 
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