crewchiefpro
Hard-core CEG'er
Leave that ground alone, piggy back from the body to the coil bracket using another 10 gauge wire. Use the same bolt on the body.
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I need help with throttle body
- Thread starter Raywagner132
- Start date
Raywagner132
CEG'er
Okay. So being that the coil is by the washer reservoir, then I could just use the same ground that is for the pcm, or is the ground that goes to the passenger side motor mount fine? Either way, my brother and I ran a wire just to test stuff, its bare copper wire that is like 4 gauge (for houses) and I definately have spark because I hooked up a spark plug tester and it lit up. So we proceeded to test the fuel pressure, and the gauge didn't even register...and being that I am using the NPG fuel rail mod, my brother thought that maybe I got the feed and return lines backwards but I was thinking that that couldn't be possible because the two adapters are different sizes, and it would seem obvious that the feed hose would be the bigger of the two..so just to see what happens we disconnected the fuel lines from the NPG block to see which line would feed, and the one with the bigger adapter clearly was feeding when my bro turn the key. It had a steady stream two, clearly there was pressure. Even so, we switched the lines around and put them back into the NPG block to see what would happen...He turned the key and I watched the gauge...no pressure, but this time I could clearly hear pressure buildup in the block and this pressure took about 2-3 minutes to go away. I supose this signifies that I had it correct initially. However, now I am thinking there is something wrong with the NPG block because how is no pressure getting past this thing?
if the fuel rail checks out
then .... are the spark plugs wet after you have been trying to start it ?
... if no,
it could be injectors not firing ...... check the 3 multiplugs on the side of the rear cam cover
.. if yes...... could be timing ... 3 liter timing sprocket on 2 5L PCM .....G.
then .... are the spark plugs wet after you have been trying to start it ?
... if no,
it could be injectors not firing ...... check the 3 multiplugs on the side of the rear cam cover
.. if yes...... could be timing ... 3 liter timing sprocket on 2 5L PCM .....G.
Raywagner132
CEG'er
So i couldn't figure out why pressure wasn't getting past the fuel rail adapter and I called joey at NPG to make sure I had it hooked up right. My brother and I had switched the quick connects on the fuel lines around to see if that changed anything, and it didn't - so i had to switch it back so that the feed line was the bigger quick connect and the return line with the smaller one..however, since I had it connected line this initially, this time i took the fuel regulator off and put another one on that was on a svt contour fuel rail that I had laying around. Connected everything, and fired it up to see if there was fuel pressure and indeed there was. I was getting about 55 PSI. Unfortunately, it still wouldn't start - so like you said (before I actually read your post lol) we pulled a spark plug to see if it had any gas on it, and nope - it was dry. So we proceeded to take the intake manifold off to access the fuel rail to see what was going on. I disconnected the whole lower intake and positioned it upwards and had my brother crank the engine, and some fuel came out on the first injector but it came out of the part of the rail that sits on the top of the injector. Instead of really fixing it I just took the fuel rail out because it was an escape fuel rail and it seems a bit abnormal anyway because everything seemd to be positioned in a way that the injectors couldn't fully seat into the intake. I took the injectors out and put them back in the taurus rail and tied everything down. This is where I stopped for the night because i need to get my fuel line disconnect tools from school so that I can transfer the npg adapter over to the taurus rail..hopefully i get that on tomorrow and she fires up. Oh by the way, I;m not concerned about the timing, and having the timing sprocket on the 3.0 keyway because I checked the timing like 3 times and made sure the sprocket was faced towards the crank sensor.
crewchiefpro
Hard-core CEG'er
Doesn't matter which vc bolt. I have several large wire grounds to the engine, more than the factory puts on them.
I went to the junkyard and pulled 10 ground straps from all kinds of cars so I have plenty. I have two 2 gauge grounds from the battery negative in the trunk to the body. 3 grounds from the body to the engine, one dedicated for the coil.
I went to the junkyard and pulled 10 ground straps from all kinds of cars so I have plenty. I have two 2 gauge grounds from the battery negative in the trunk to the body. 3 grounds from the body to the engine, one dedicated for the coil.
Oh by the way, I;m not concerned about the timing, and having the timing sprocket on the 3.0 keyway because I checked the timing like 3 times and made sure the sprocket was faced towards the crank sensor.
Sorry, I should have explained this more clearly.
It is my understanding that when you run a 3.0L engine in a contour / cougar, you are actually running it as a bored out 2.5L
On the timing sprocket there are two keyway cut outs,. one is for 2.5L, the other is for 3.0L and are marked as such.
If you are running an SVT 2.5L PCM, then you need to set the timing sprocket to 2.5L
Unless your tune has re-written the timing tables to complete 3.0L settings, you may have starting issues with the sprocket set to 3.0L.
Type timing / starting into the 3.0L section search box and you should find the threads that cover guys having starting issues after an engine swap ....G.
Raywagner132
CEG'er
Raywagner132
CEG'er
No you're fine. I actually knew what you said before. I was just implying that when setting the sprocket on at 11:00 the missing tooth on the gear will be pointed at the crankshaft sensor.
Oh btw I changed the fuel rail but it's still a no go because apparently the fuel injectors aren't firing even though I have adequate fuel pressure. I'm going to look at my wiring because I had wired in the connections from the Taurus, so possibly I didn't match up wires correctly. Also I'm going to check for resistance individually on each injector
...so you took the timing cover off your 3.0L and moved the sprocket to the other keyway ?
....I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think that the timing method you described above, only works if you are using the 2.5L timing cover and sensor or a 3.0L cover which has the exact same sensor position.
Maybe one of the mod's can clarify that situation.... I'm sure the answer is in the archives.
All the injectors share a common feed (live / 12v) and the grounds all go separately back to the PCM.
I assume when you say you changed the wiring, you mean the connectors for a different style of electrical injector plug..... which injectors are you using. ?.... G.
....I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think that the timing method you described above, only works if you are using the 2.5L timing cover and sensor or a 3.0L cover which has the exact same sensor position.
Maybe one of the mod's can clarify that situation.... I'm sure the answer is in the archives.
All the injectors share a common feed (live / 12v) and the grounds all go separately back to the PCM.
I assume when you say you changed the wiring, you mean the connectors for a different style of electrical injector plug..... which injectors are you using. ?.... G.
Raywagner132
CEG'er
Sorry, I must be confusing you. Let me clear it up.
I am using the 2.5 timing cover, and I have the pulse wheel set to the 2.5 position. I was just implying that the missing tooth on the pulse wheel points towards the crank sensor when the crank sprocket is at 11:00. Wow that was technical lol. Anyways, yeah I changed the connectors for the fuel injectors because the 24 pound ones from the Taurus had different ones.
Moving on, I came together conclusion that something is faulty in the wiring because the injectors aren't firing. I just tests the resistance on the injectors themselves and they were all between 11-18 ohms across the two pins, so the injectors themselves should be good. Now, I looked at wiring diagrams on the 99 cougar, and 2004 Taurus to match up injector wiring, and I found out that I actually have all the wires mismatched lol. I assumed the bigger gauge wires would match up with the bigger gauge wires but clearly I'm wrong. I'm going to switch the wires to how they are supposed to be, and after that I want to test the positive side of the circuit to see if I am getting batter voltage to the injectors, so I need to figure out when the pcm relay closes or simply bypass the relay to test that side of the circuit. After that I'm going to use one of the lights that plug into the connectors to see if they are pulsing. Does that sound like a good plan, or do you have any advice? By the way, Gorman, thanks for all your help. It is much appreciated
OK; first of all...no confusion, the reason I'm asking you to confirm things is because over the net ... Assume nothing.. We need you to confirm each step so you don't waste time checking things needlessly.
I think the injectors are marked + and - ... you might need a magnifying glass to see the marks in the plastic.
Not sure about the gauge of the wire .... but all the +ve's are powered by the same common feed.
The ground (-ve) of each injector is separate.
All wires go back thru the plugs on the side of the rear cam cover.... check continuity back to and thru that multiplug.
I don't recommend putting any voltage thru the PCM ... not at this stage .... just confirm the wiring for the injectors and then report back before touching the PCM ....G..
oh yes, there is a ground wire to the PCM in that top corner of the engine bay ... make sure that is securely bolted down. .
AFK ..i'll check back tomorrow.
I think the injectors are marked + and - ... you might need a magnifying glass to see the marks in the plastic.
Not sure about the gauge of the wire .... but all the +ve's are powered by the same common feed.
The ground (-ve) of each injector is separate.
All wires go back thru the plugs on the side of the rear cam cover.... check continuity back to and thru that multiplug.
I don't recommend putting any voltage thru the PCM ... not at this stage .... just confirm the wiring for the injectors and then report back before touching the PCM ....G..
oh yes, there is a ground wire to the PCM in that top corner of the engine bay ... make sure that is securely bolted down. .
AFK ..i'll check back tomorrow.
Raywagner132
CEG'er
okay no porblem man, I dont have a problem confirming anything.
I didn't have a magnifying glass on hand so I jsut looked at some wiring diagrams and matched the cougar wiring with the taurus one so not I have all the injectors wired in the way they should be. After doing that I tried using a noid light and the only injector I was getting any light on was the first one. I need to find out if there is a way to test the power side of the circuit. Would be nice if i could bypass the relay but im not sure how to..I will ask my auto instructor at school tomorrow about some of the stuff you are describing. Which multiplug are you referring to? Im kind of drawing a brain part right now. I know that the injector wiring exits at the timing cover side of the engine and goes into 3 connectors. I think one goes to the cam/crank/fuel pressure, another goes to the coil/radio transmitter, and I think the third goes to the alternator/rear 02 sensor, egr solenoid, and all the way to the big connector above the trans. Can you point me into the right direction as to which connector is the one you are referencing? Thanks
..... you will need a multimeter to test continuity and voltages of the injector wiring. A light will only tell you that the injector it is not working ... not why.
The fact that 5 injectors are not working suggests a supply issue ....how did you cut and re-connect the wiring when you changed the injector plugs ?
I can't believe 5 separate grounds are faulty .... unless the multiplug serving them is not firmly snapped closed. All 3 of my plugs have zip ties holding them firmly together... I broke down because of poor connections across those plugs .... car starts first time every time and never had an issue since.
Not sure what relay you are talking about bypassing .... can't see it being your issue since 1 of your injectors is working.
You will need to trace the wires back from the injectors, testing / checking them as you go..
Ask your tutor to walk you through it ... much easier to have that conversation / instruction face to face. ....G.
If anyone has a schematic diagram of the injector harness ... please post a link
The fact that 5 injectors are not working suggests a supply issue ....how did you cut and re-connect the wiring when you changed the injector plugs ?
I can't believe 5 separate grounds are faulty .... unless the multiplug serving them is not firmly snapped closed. All 3 of my plugs have zip ties holding them firmly together... I broke down because of poor connections across those plugs .... car starts first time every time and never had an issue since.
Not sure what relay you are talking about bypassing .... can't see it being your issue since 1 of your injectors is working.
You will need to trace the wires back from the injectors, testing / checking them as you go..
Ask your tutor to walk you through it ... much easier to have that conversation / instruction face to face. ....G.
If anyone has a schematic diagram of the injector harness ... please post a link
Raywagner132
CEG'er
Good advice. I'm just going to walk you through what I'm doing and add to what you have to say
I used the light just to check circuitry. Like you said, I also knew that it wasn't going to find my problem but I first had to see if there was a problem. After that, I did bypass the pcm power relay. I learned how from my instructor and the purpose of it was to test the power side of the injectors to make sure sufficient voltage was being applied. When I did the test I was getting about 11 volts at each injector so I think it's safe to say that the supply circuit is fine. Now, to test the pcm side, I am doing a resistance test with the pcm and battery disconnected. I'm testing the injector pin and the corresponding pcm pin and looking for continuity. I have diagrams so this is no problem. I tested a couple and only one passed so far..so like I think you said, I think I have a problem at one of the connectors. I'm going to check more later today and I may just take me power probe to it
The ground cable from the coil is suppose to attach to one of the DPFE bracket bolts as I recall.
Raywagner132
CEG'er
Okay, I will have to post a pic of the pin diagram later because I'm not on my computer. Anyway, I was having a connection issue with the connector that all of the injector wiring goes to ( the one that is by the motor mount and not the pcm connector) I determined this because I wasn't getting continuity from the pcm pin to the injector itself but I was getting continuity from the pcm pin to the male side of the connector I was referencing early..also I was getting continuity from the female side of that connector to the injector, so essentially the pcm wasn't getting signal past the connecto. So what I did was cleaned the connector pins with spray and a brush.. reconnected it and retested with the injector too pcm pin..this time I had continuity and usually measured below 1 ohm
Raywagner132
CEG'er
Okay I may have to make a custom ground for that since the coil is relocated
Raywagner132
CEG'er
Yeah lol. I haven't done as much the past week because I had a hectic schedule but I tested all the injectors with the light and all of them lit up, so TR he circuitry should be good. I put the intake back on and tried to start it...still didn't start. It's cranking and it definitely has compression because I can hear it. Also, did a leak down test before I put the motor in, and 0 leakage. I'm thinking I might have to take another look at spark?