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building the bottom end of your 3.0L

S

Stylin55_oh

CEG'er
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
199
Location
northeast ohio
I was wondering what everyone was doing when they were building their bottom end. Where are you guys finding these pistons? What kind of boost levels/hp are people running on these motors? Any help would be great. I'm trying to decide if i wanna spend the money.
 
Kinda interested in this also. Im new to the 3L. Wondering how much boost a 3L block can take safely?
 
Im pretty sure the stock 3L can "handle" 13-14 psi, but not for very long. I wouldn't do anymore than 10-11 on a stock one. 7psi is enough fun.
 
Actually I didn't replace them I had a forum member (Bnoon) build the 3L for me about 8 years ago. I believe he changed the rod bearings to clevite. I don't know if he changed the mains as I'm not sure if they were released yet.
 
If you search around you'll find all my threads with details of actually what is out there and available. It was the whole reason why I created them :shrug:

However because I feel bad for a guy that hasn't learned how to use the search feature ;)...


CSVT#49 said:
I want to get the best bang for my buck so I've been poking around to find what suppliers can offer. So far I have had limited success with emails. Only K1 Technlogies has replied. So I've begun calling everyone. However here is what I have received so far...

Rods
K1 Technologies - billet 4340 H-beam rods, $617.28 + ~$15 shipping
Scat - Does not show anything in there system, but after prying with the guy on the phone about AER buying rods for the Nobles from them he found a mystery rod for a V6 that they purchase. The guy that deals with them is out until next week. He had no idea what he could sell them to me for either.
Pauter Machine - Still makes the rods the old part number (FOR-210-530-1380F) is still valid and even more amazing is the fact that they stock them. However even with the special they are running till the end of the month the rods are still $1188.00

Pistons
Diamond Pistons - No replies yet, they were closed when I got out of work. NPG sells them in a kit for $899.95
Wiseco - Custom pistons guy is out of the office
Ross Pistons - Custom piston forged and dished will run me $660 for the pistons. Upgrading the wrist pins adds another $150
Click to expand...

I ended up going with the K1 rods and Diamond Racing Pistons. However I kind of wished I would have gone with the ROSS pistons instead pricing would have been about the same in the end. I just wasn't to crazy about the Diamond product after I received it and looked them over... Oh well.

As far as bearings go... I'd recommend either Clevite 77 bearings or ACL bearings. Both brands at one point were owned and operated by Fedral Mogul, but their ACL brand was sold a few years back and is based out of Australia. Either one are top notch products and you can't go wrong. If your taking your block down that far to change out your bottom end... change all of the bearings too.

However all of that said... you don't need to build your engine like I am. You can safely run 10psi on a stock 3L that has been well cared for during it's N/A life. Just buy yourself a NPG-Racing kit and bolt it on. You won't be disappointed. Only reason why I'm going nuts with mine is because I plan to push the limits and I need all of the help I can get. Plus I'm going to have to modify the hell out of my frame and suspension to even get it to the ground.

Although you already have a turbo car... so what's the real deal here? Looking for a little more power are we :laugh:
 
CSVT#49 said:
If you search around you'll find all my threads with details of actually what is out there and available. It was the whole reason why I created them :shrug:

However because I feel bad for a guy that hasn't learned how to use the search feature ;)...
Click to expand...

i actually found your thread and it was very very helpful. However, you are also building probably thee most expensive motor in CEG history so i was hoping some other people with a little less money wrapped up would chime in with their builds as well. The reason why I'm asking is i lost compression on two cylinders while my car was getting tuned and i was forced to rip the motor out and basically start over. I was debating on building a beefier bottom end so i can have more peace of mind that motor will stay together long enough that i can actually drive it this time.

I've decided to get new connecting rod bearings (clevite 77s) and I'm just going to run everything else as stock. I already bought another low mileage 3L and have it tore down to swap over the parts from the injured motor. Then if i want to i can build up the 3L longblock i just pulled if i feel the need to get into very high boost levels.

I'm not sure what exactly hurt the motor. I plan on pulling the heads tonight to find out.
 
building a motor for cheap would seem to be asking for trouble, imho. if your going to do it, do it right the first time.

"If you don't have the time to do it right, when will you have the time to do it over?"

- Anonymous
 
Look what happened to striker's Zetec when he went with the Probe (I think?) pistons. •••• just blew up. Gotta pony up the money and do it right the first time!
 
BrApple said:
building a motor for cheap would seem to be asking for trouble, imho. if your going to do it, do it right the first time.
Click to expand...

Trust me this is far from a cheap build. I just was on the fence about pistons and rods.

Blackcoog said:
Been running 10-11psi for a few years on my stock 3L with clevite bearings.
Click to expand...

I keep hearing things like this, or that the stock 3L is good for 400whp. Well i just want to drive my car i've been working on this project for like 2 yrs (albeit very slowly at times) and it was so close to being on the road and then i had a setback. So if most ppl on here aren't running new pistons or rods (i didnt hear many people speaking up about this) and running 10psi on a stock block can hold up, I'm going to do that. I'll have a block i can build up if i decide that 10psi just isnt enough.
 
The stock bottom end can take about 400 whp. I think thats pushing the limits.

Upgraded crank and rod bearings are a must (Cleavite and Federal Mogul)

I personally ran Pauter rods and Ross Pistons. I would recommend Pauter rods hands down. They are an off the shelf item and they'll handle more power than you can throw at them. The Ross Pistons were fine, but dealing with Ross was a huge PITA. They screwed up my order several times.
 
Stylin55_oh said:
I'm not sure what exactly hurt the motor. I plan on pulling the heads tonight to find out.
Click to expand...

Any word? I would do a compression test on your engine before you even try to fire it. Then you can avoid some potential problems. Biggest thing I could see happening is your rings expanding to much with the high heat associated with going to forced induction. If I were you I would regap the piston rings to ensure you won't have issues. As long as your not going crazy on the boost your stock bottom end should handle it just fine. There are a number of people out there running stock 3L bottom ends... only question we all have is how long they will last. If you upgrade the bearings and regap the rings I think you will be fine for what you are looking to get out of it.
 
Well I finally pulled the head and found what happened.

1311446c.jpg


I believe the cause of this was the following. prior to the tuning, the injector to this cylinder came disconnected and was causing a Misfire. This was eventually diagnosed but this cylinder did encounter a lean condition because of the injectors becoming disconnected.
 
That sucks. I know those returnless injector clips are horrible. They always break and I can see something like that happening easily. It looks like you should be a return fuel system though. Did a clip fall off or not get installed?
 
I have a returnless fuel rail with the nautilus fuel mod for return systems. The problem came from my injector adapters. the 2004 wiring does not match the 42 lb injectors. I think its like EV6 to EV1 or something. Well the adapters don't clip in they just slide together. one came jloose.
 
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