Bailout Fails, Now What?!

[Klasse Act]

I know there was a thread in comon interests about this but after seeing this on the news this morning got me pissed off! I'm a Rep but these guys from down south just don't get it, how is that someone doesn't stand up and talk about the conflict of interest going on here Now one thing I heard is that the UAW didn't come to the table with what they were going to do, just saying that we'd make changes, nothing solid, am I missing something here. These people have had it made for far too long and unions were put into place back in the day to secure a safe working environment, not to pay people crazy money w/ bonus' to boot, not to mention the allowed "cardboard condos" too My Dad, rest his soul, is looking down on all of this for sure and even he told me stories about all of this and then some and I certainly will believe my own flesh and blood over anyone talking about it behind some desk or some rep of a state that has NO clue as to what's going one. In closing I'm not saying its all the unions fault, no way, but those people need to make changes first and then come to the table, another dropped ball by the BIG 3! BTW, doesn't Gettlefinger look like a dope up there with the other 3 guys:shrug:

 

[Scooba Steve]

What to do next?...

Fire all of congress and move out of Michigan

In all seriousness, your right they don't get it. They simply are trying to protect the foreign nameplate manufactures that have a vested interest in their right-to-work state. They are proud of the fact that they aren't union. However, the government does give a lot of incentives,tax breaks, health care, etc, etc. to encourage these manufactures to invest in their state. If they don't want to give the Big 3 a loan then they should discontinue these perks that they offer to the Japs. And to clarify, I am not a Union member. I am just calling it how I see it.

Also, I'm sure that they probably all view themselves as 'Patriots'. Letting the greatest industy in the greatest country in the world fall to the wayside is very unpatriotic in my opinion.

 

[martinmalley]

All the grandstanding from the senate is so disingenuous. In addition to the kowtowing to foreign companies with domestic production, I'd add:

1. The big three are hurting because they can't get short term financing because of the banking crisis because the financial bailout isn't working.

B. Not one of those senators intent on union busting have said anything about white collar salaries and bonuses. Those folks make far more than their European and Japanese counterparts.

I'm not saying changes aren't necessary, but at the end of the day, there is no way these companies can go under without wiping out our already struggling economy.

 

[Klasse Act]

Gettlefinger...

Gettlefinger...

...is a tool! I just listened to his half hour speech and not once did ask George Bush to help out, he just said the White House, classy move jackass! Your going to need to be a bit more professional then that to ask the person whom your group is told to vote against all the time, let me spell it for you...H U M B L E

 

[Livinsvt]

Well looks like there getting 14 Billion of Tarp money to get them to the next administration! So this is a good alternative.

Congress just doesnt get it. I am dissapointed by there actions.

 

[Klasse Act]

Well looks like there getting 14 Billion of Tarp money to get them to the next administration! So this is a good alternative.

Congress just doesnt get it. I am dissapointed by there actions.

I wonder if that's going to act as a "band-aid" until the next adm gets in there and then we have to go through this entire circus again:shrug: I wish there was another way for the big 3 to get spanked for past mistakes, along with the unions but have it not be such a fuss, a fantasy world yes, but I hope someone learns from all of this and we the consumer benefit in the end!

 

[SVTMiG]

I know there was a thread in comon interests about this but after seeing this on the news this morning got me pissed off! I'm a Rep but these guys from down south just don't get it, how is that someone doesn't stand up and talk about the conflict of interest going on here Now one thing I heard is that the UAW didn't come to the table with what they were going to do, just saying that we'd make changes, nothing solid, am I missing something here. These people have had it made for far too long and unions were put into place back in the day to secure a safe working environment, not to pay people crazy money w/ bonus' to boot, not to mention the allowed "cardboard condos" too My Dad, rest his soul, is looking down on all of this for sure and even he told me stories about all of this and then some and I certainly will believe my own flesh and blood over anyone talking about it behind some desk or some rep of a state that has NO clue as to what's going one. In closing I'm not saying its all the unions fault, no way, but those people need to make changes first and then come to the table, another dropped ball by the BIG 3! BTW, doesn't Gettlefinger look like a dope up there with the other 3 guys:shrug:

Crazy money? Are you serious? Pay is in line with the competitors'. It's the benefit packages that bring the overall cost up at production level. Do you want all of America to live without good health insurance? UAW benefits are a model America should reach out and embrace! Everybody in this country should demand decent health care. It's not up to the UAW to drop benefits, it's up to our government to figure out how to fix the problem! And the cardboard condos are a thing of the past. Do you really think it's the UAW's job to police the entire industry. How are they to convince the lazy ones to join the modern world? That's gotta come from management. They started shaping up their ship a bit too late. The days your dad told you about are history. But our generation thinks their generation's stories live on in real life. I am not saying you won't find that if you look. But all the places I personally know of that won't let go of that 'hayday' mentality are eihter shuttered or on the list to go soon.

I work in one of the newest, most modern GM-UAW plants in the world. Our union local is in agreement that the crap you mentioned is for the past and when management cracks the whip on the idiots who can't get it into their 30+ year seniority heads, they have the support of the masses. The old school laziness came from the time the big 3 were making money hand over foot and could care less what happened on the shop floor. That's when they let their companies get out of control. Regaining control has been taking place for over 20 years! That takes time when you're one of the top employers in the world. So they were stupid and have been paying the price since. Let's all move back to today where companies in trouble have good products, efficient and productive workers, a better business model, and just want to keep moving forward. Let's not forget about the past but instead learn from it.

And yeah, Gettlefinger. He's a dope all right. That's the dope that's been shouting for years that execs need to right-size along with the common guy. Well, they're finally doing something about it. Management cuts and exec pay has been taking adjustments all year. They just needed to see the reality. Let's see, UAW took concessions...we're still losing money. UAW took more concessions...we're still losing money. Hey, wait a minute, we're paying how many people how much money that adds ZERO value to each and every car and truck coming off that line? Maybe we should trim there too! DUH. So they've seen the light, let's move forward.

 

[PurdySVT]

I think this whole thing is rediculous! (I am against the bailouts especially the past ones.

but I really think that it is rediculous that congress passed a 700b bailout for the banks with very few conditions and much less trouble and here we have a 14-34b loan for the big 3 and just look at the conditions they want to put into it for $14b and to listen to pelosi from cali and barney frank (please put your dentures in before you speek) from mass. please what a bunch of BS this government has been skrewing the big 3 and MI for years in the name of free trade and they have the nerve to lecture these companies about failed business models please just look at congress the king of failed business models they couldn't make money if their lives depended on it and certainly are willing to lose trillions of our money because they are stupid

http://www.boycottalabamanow.com

we to stand up and fires these idiots who are throwing our money away and have the nerve to first destroy a companies business and then lecture them on their failed business model and create a car czar to "fix" the car companies... WTF did they do any of this crap with the banks or did they just give more power to the people responsible for the screw up in the first place?!

 

[Lt_hailBob]

Just my .02 ........

I think it is in the best interest of the automakers not to get the bailout and to wind up filing for bankruptcy, even if I do lose the money I have in Ford stock. This will free them from the ridiculous demands of the UAW. They will be able to lower wages to equal that of Toyota, Nissan, and Honda, thus making them a more competitive force in the market.

 

[Scooba Steve]

Just my .02 ........

I think it is in the best interest of the automakers not to get the bailout and to wind up filing for bankruptcy, even if I do lose the money I have in Ford stock. This will free them from the ridiculous demands of the UAW. They will be able to lower wages to equal that of Toyota, Nissan, and Honda, thus making them a more competitive force in the market.

Gettlefinger claims that their "research" indicates that consumers won't purchase from a bankrupt company out of fear :shrug: :shrug:

 

[SVTMiG]

...

we [need] to stand up and fires these idiots who are throwing our money away and have the nerve to first destroy a companies business and then lecture them on their failed business model and create a car czar to "fix" the car companies... WTF did they do any of this crap with the banks or did they just give more power to the people responsible for the screw up in the first place?!

I'm in full agreement that it's total BS. But there is more to the story. My understanding is that most of the major financial corps. that took money went through MAJOR restructuring. I have no clue if that was an untold part of the deal or what. Now what's more BS is that those ousted from their thrones in the process surely got itty-bitty 7 figure severance packages as execs always seam to manage to do in the big corps.

As for the auto corps., the people in power now were doing fabulous jobs. I don't recall in my 20+ years of being a car nut ever being excited about so many current and coming products, especially US products over those from across the pond. They were also steering things in the right direction for cost reduction. Unfortunately, they have still failed to look in the mirror when cuts are due, until it was too late. White collar jobs are being slashed like crazy this year. I have faith this will work out still. The belts may still come in a notch or 2, but I think things will begin to stabilize more early next year. Emphasis on the "begin".

Now if we can just figure out that government issue...

 

[SVTMiG]

Gettlefinger claims that their "research" indicates that consumers won't purchase from a bankrupt company out of fear :shrug: :shrug:

OK, poll...

You've got $25,000 cash. You need a new vehicle and you need it now.

Company A just filed for bankruptcy protection. They have a nice 100K mile warranty and it's a really cool car, but company A has a history of needing that warranty for little things that go wrong in the first 2 years. Nobody can say they will or won't be in business to honor that warranty next year. Furthermore, you've just read in the paper that if company A goes under, the resale on this thing will be dimes on the dollar.

Company B also has a cool product and a similar warranty. They weren't doing too well last year, but they now have the backing of the government's wallet and claim a plan is in place that will keep them viable for at least 5 years, many more if the economy picks back up a bit.

Who ya gonna buy from?:shrug:

 

[MapOfTaziFoSho]

Toyota, because their government will bail out their auto makers without even thinking about! :nonono:

And mark my words...another two quarters of bum sales and Toyota will need a cash infusion...in addition to massive layoffs here and in Japan...

 

[SVTMiG]

Toyota, because their government will bail out their auto makers without even thinking about! :nonono:

And mark my words...another two quarters of bum sales and Toyota will need a cash infusion...in addition to massive layoffs here and in Japan...

Have you noticed Toyota has quietly shuffled idle workers into training? It doesn't get much press but it's out there. They don't want to have layoffs on the record. Hmmmm....but the GM jobs bank is yet another evil dragging down America.

Not to say it's all good. It does get used irresponsibly but it was created for all the right reasons. And how could it be bad? Toyota is paying their workers to sit...and they're perfect

 

[MapOfTaziFoSho]

Have you noticed Toyota has quietly shuffled idle workers into training? It doesn't get much press but it's out there. They don't want to have layoffs on the record. Hmmmm....but the GM jobs bank is yet another evil dragging down America.

Not to say it's all good. It does get used irresponsibly but it was created for all the right reasons. And how could it be bad? Toyota is paying their workers to sit...and they're perfect

Oh, I know about Toyota's current pains. I'm not trying to come off as a Toyota fanboi. I work for the General, I am merely pointing out the irony. :nonono:

 

[Klasse Act]

Looks like 8 bill for GM and 7 bill for Chrysler, great!, now make the most use of the money and get some nice rides out there...CHRYSLER and GM, stop the overlapping, do we really need the Traverse and the Outlook:blackeye: and speaking of that, the need of the G3, who thought that was a good idea:shrug: or the G5:shrug: Atleast Saturn with the Astra has a car that isn't like other makes in the GM family here in the states, its a start!


BTW Ford, we're watching you too, get to it, chop chop!

 

[MapOfTaziFoSho]

Looks like 8 bill for GM and 7 bill for Chrysler, great!, now make the most use of the money and get some nice rides out there...CHRYSLER and GM, stop the overlapping, do we really need the Traverse and the Outlook:blackeye: and speaking of that, the need of the G3, who thought that was a good idea:shrug: or the G5:shrug: Atleast Saturn with the Astra has a car that isn't like other makes in the GM family here in the states, its a start!


BTW Ford, we're watching you too, get to it, chop chop!

G3 and G5 were for the BPG dealers, they all wanted fuel efficient models to sell...it was a mistake, but at least an explainable one...

They have needed to kill brands for a while...and kill dealers, but many state laws GM over if they want to kill brands...because of the dealers...

 

[Pudmunkie]

Astra is a great start - I'm enjoying mine for DD status. Its deff a step in the right direction; it just needs a 2.0 or 2.2l ecotec, doesnt even need to be turboed!

Hopefully the domestics will see the light....

 

[SVTMiG]

Oh, I know about Toyota's current pains. I'm not trying to come off as a Toyota fanboi. I work for the General, I am merely pointing out the irony. :nonono:

That wasn't anything pointed at you, I was simply expanding. Contrast between Toyota and GM...now there's irony. And if you work for them as I do you'll actually get something out of that. :laugh:

 

[SVTMiG]

Looks like 8 bill for GM and 7 bill for Chrysler, great!, now make the most use of the money and get some nice rides out there...CHRYSLER and GM, stop the overlapping, do we really need the Traverse and the Outlook:blackeye: and speaking of that, the need of the G3, who thought that was a good idea:shrug: or the G5:shrug: Atleast Saturn with the Astra has a car that isn't like other makes in the GM family here in the states, its a start!

Well ya know there not about to chop shebby out anytime soon, but the Outlook is the worst selling unit of hte family. I will not be shocked to see it go. Why even bring up the G3? Kinda irrelevant here isn't it? The G5 makes sense to me. Pontiac has always brought a different flavor to the table. Especially when just a couple months ago you could call around to metro-D area dealers and they'd laugh if you asked if they had any in stock. Same as the Cobalt at the core, different styling, same high sales.

As for the Astra...one of the only reasons I hope Saturn survives...I hope to see more options with fresh skin when the new Opel version makes it out - 2010 I believe??

And yes, we do need SOME overlapping. Each name brand has it's own style and each has some degree of faithful brand customers.