Back to the drawing board

[Antec]

Long time no talk guys,


For those I am friends with on facebook some of you know I blew the motor out on my 1999 SE contour. Sounds like something broke loose in the rear head. Which leaves me looking at doing yet another 3l swap. The wiring harness is also thrashed so I'll also be looking to replace that. I'd hate to junk the car as it's been in my family since I was in the 5th grade.





Now I still have #5292 that I never drive anymore while taking 20 credit hour semesters on my double major. It has sat for the last year. The body kit needs to be resprayed and then she will be ready to hit the road.




Now here is my plan. I plan to pull the 3l (portmatched) out of #5292 and put it into my SE contour. Then do a full swap into #5292 and get a tune.



My questions are:
How well will a ported 3l work in a SE without a tune? Will it still get through e-check?
Can a 98 wiring harness go into a 99?
Can I keep my svt injectors and just change the fuel rail on the ported motor?


Full swap into #5292 Questions/statements for clarity:
What fuel rail will I need?
I have to make a tb bracket.
The throttle cable should fit without having to make a custom cable.
I can still retain cruise control.
I just have to splice the knock sensor and the fuel injector harness into a contour harness?
I will need a SCT scan tool?
Does anyone know of any data logging programs that are compatible with the contour?


As always thanks for the help guys

 

[BrApple]

Yes the 3L will run in a SE. Use the stock SE injectors, fuel rail and harness, etc. No the 98 harness will not work in a 99. Well maybe a late 98.5 harness might work. Will it pass emissions, maybe. Will not know until you try. But if its like CT, as long as enough self tests have run it should pass. If you want to use the SVT injectors also install a SVT PCM, which must be matched to the year.

As for the straight 3L questions, actually all of them, they have been answered many times before.

 

[Redlineracer12]

SE injectors in a 3L are a bad idea. You should have at least 19# injectors IMO. I know Blackcoog did a swap in a Cougar that had issues because of the stock 17# fuel injectors.

What transmission in the SE? I would be tempted to just swap in another 2.5L and avoid all the 3L conversions (not to mention two motor swaps) if this is just a stock daily driver, especially if automatic. Maybe I am getting old... onder:

 

[Antec]

I hear you on staying with a stock 2.5. I can't find one worth what they are asking! You're not old, I am not excited to mess up a car that never had check engine lights. I am also not thrilled with ripping my cars apart, especially with limited time. Then add the fact that the car only has value to me and the money I drop in it is a sunk cost. The SE is a 5 speed. I thought blue_Fuz ran stock injectors for years with #17 injectors in his 95 SE?

 

[BrApple]

I thought blue_Fuz ran stock injectors for years with #17 injectors in his 95 SE?

As far as I recall he still is.

 

[Blackcoog]

Why would you want to swap motors around? Put another motor in the SE and be done with it.

17's will work in a pinch in a 3L. I had a customer run them in a 3L cougar for a few years and one of the 17's failed (failed open) so it hydrolocked the motor. I don't know if that was because they were being pushed too hard or if it was just time for that injector to fail.

The stock ECU can run 19's though. I'd run 19's if you can. I swapped a ported 3L into a Cougar with 19's and the engine ran perfectly. We did get a tune for the car but it ran fine without it. There were no idle or drivability issues without the tune.

 

[Antec]

Awesome and thanks for the heads up. I have extra #19 injectors in the garage and everything to build another svt port matched motor. But after riding in both a port matched SVT and a full I think a full is the way to go. That is the reason for the dual swap. I want the ideal motor in my SVT

 

[98 Contour]

The stock ECU can run 19's though. I'd run 19's if you can. I swapped a ported 3L into a Cougar with 19's and the engine ran perfectly. We did get a tune for the car but it ran fine without it. There were no idle or drivability issues without the tune.

I had no idea, I was always under the impression you'd have to get a tune or swap in an SVT PCM to run 19's. Great to know I can get away with the SE PCM and not have to get a tune right away.

 

[BrApple]

I had no idea, I was always under the impression you'd have to get a tune or swap in an SVT PCM to run 19's. Great to know I can get away with the SE PCM and not have to get a tune right away.

whoa, lets hold up a second.

The PCM is going to run any injector thats installed. What the issue would be is the PCM doesn't know that it has a larger injector then its programmed with. So yes its going to run, and most likely run rich and throw codes for it. Now the PCM is going to be able to adjust for the larger injectors only so much, that is when the codes will come up.

Look up buckeyesvts threads here and on FCO. He installed a SVT PCM in a SE and did not swap the injectors. It ran but eventually it threw lean codes on both banks because the 17# injectors where not providing enough fuel.

So as I pointed out the same is going to happen if one put in larger injectors. Also one has to be careful, put to large of an injector in and it could wash down the cylinder and cause other problems.

Can it be done, yes. But I do not recommend it at all.

So one has to decide their level of comfort in doing this. I might use a different size injector if I had to move the car quickly over a very short distance. But I wouldn't run and drive the car for any length of time.

Do it right from the beginning and just get a tune with new injectors.

 

[98 Contour]

whoa, lets hold up a second.

The PCM is going to run any injector thats installed. What the issue would be is the PCM doesn't know that it has a larger injector then its programmed with. So yes its going to run, and most likely run rich and throw codes for it. Now the PCM is going to be able to adjust for the larger injectors only so much, that is when the codes will come up.

Look up buckeyesvts threads here and on FCO. He installed a SVT PCM in a SE and did not swap the injectors. It ran but eventually it threw lean codes on both banks because the 17# injectors where not providing enough fuel.

So as I pointed out the same is going to happen if one put in larger injectors. Also one has to be careful, put to large of an injector in and it could wash down the cylinder and cause other problems.

Can it be done, yes. But I do not recommend it at all.

So one has to decide their level of comfort in doing this. I might use a different size injector if I had to move the car quickly over a very short distance. But I wouldn't run and drive the car for any length of time.

Do it right from the beginning and just get a tune with new injectors.

OK, that's what I orginally thought and was planning to do. I'll most likely just tune my SE PCM w/ 19# injectors. I'd rather not swap PCMs and have to worry about reprogramming my keys.

 

[BrApple]

OK, that's what I orginally thought and was planning to do. I'll most likely just tune my SE PCM w/ 19# injectors. I'd rather not swap PCMs and have to worry about reprogramming my keys.

simple, get a PCM with two keys. Then there is one of two options. Swap the chip in the key or program the other set of keys. Not hard to do at all.

 

[98 Contour]

simple, get a PCM with two keys. Then there is one of two options. Swap the chip in the key or program the other set of keys. Not hard to do at all.

When you put it that way, it does seem pretty easy lol. I may go this route instead.
The only thing I will need to clear up is whether or not I can get through emissions testing with a non-vin matching PCM...

 

[BAD SVT]

When you put it that way, it does seem pretty easy lol. I may go this route instead.
The only thing I will need to clear up is whether or not I can get through emissions testing with a non-vin matching PCM...

You should be able to. I'm running a pcm from another svt in mine. I must say tho that it didnt come with keys. And so i had to take it to Ford to make me two new keys. Not sure if that makes a diff or not

 

[98 Contour]

You should be able to. I'm running a pcm from another svt in mine. I must say tho that it didnt come with keys. And so i had to take it to Ford to make me two new keys. Not sure if that makes a diff or not

I would imagine since I have (4) keys, I might be able to just reprogram (2) of them to the SVT PCM.

 

[Antec]

Hold on a sec 98 Contour. The wiring harnesses are pinned different as I am finding out. Make sure you get a PCM to match your harness. I would also recommend buying an svt if you want to mod your car and get though emissions. If you ever run into problems you can get collectors plates (I know in ohio you can) to avoid the whole deal itself. This is why I am so hesitant to swap my SE. It's nice to not be following problems that you created yourself buy trying to get a quick turn around. Brapple is right on doing it right the first time. To much fuel and you will blow up the motor not enough and you'll blow up the motor. Not to mention the headache of looking at a Christmas tree for a dash. If you do decide to swap PCM's you will be fine as far as the vin goes. All e-check looks for is trouble codes. My buddy has a 2010 Cummins with a 2004 pcm and he run it right through echeck with no problems even though his truck is in violation of pollution laws.



Now lets say I bite the bullet on this one and do a full swap in the SE to call it a day. Can I tune that PCM or do I need to switch to a SVT pcm?

 

[SkullV]

Now lets say I bite the bullet on this one and do a full swap in the SE to call it a day. Can I tune that PCM or do I need to switch to a SVT pcm?

You can tune the PCM. Just have to get the injector values for whatever injectors you are going to use (check HPtuners forum, I'm SURE that all the OEM ford injectors are on there), scale the MAF for the 3L, tune spark, tune fuel, etc. I'm not sure what all tables are available for these PCMs in the pro racer package, but if you get it and you need tuning help, let me know. These PCMs are VERY simple compared to some of the newer ones I have been working with. Been doing late model GM tuning for a while now.

 

[Antec]

This will be my first attempt at tuning. Any pointers where to get material for general educational purposes is greatly appreciated. I have not called sct yet but I am assuming the pro racer package is one of their products. I am not a fan of buying some plug and play little tuner box. I would like to get something for a laptop with data logging capabilities. I just sold my Ion because of my lack of knock ledge with the tech II and my limited access to one. Although I am pretty sure I am the first guy to put a gen 2 ecotec in a gen one successfully without rewiring the car.

 

[98 Contour]

Hold on a sec 98 Contour. The wiring harnesses are pinned different as I am finding out. Make sure you get a PCM to match your harness. I would also recommend buying an svt if you want to mod your car and get though emissions. If you ever run into problems you can get collectors plates (I know in ohio you can) to avoid the whole deal itself. This is why I am so hesitant to swap my SE. It's nice to not be following problems that you created yourself buy trying to get a quick turn around. Brapple is right on doing it right the first time. To much fuel and you will blow up the motor not enough and you'll blow up the motor. Not to mention the headache of looking at a Christmas tree for a dash. If you do decide to swap PCM's you will be fine as far as the vin goes. All e-check looks for is trouble codes. My buddy has a 2010 Cummins with a 2004 pcm and he run it right through echeck with no problems even though his truck is in violation of pollution laws.



Now lets say I bite the bullet on this one and do a full swap in the SE to call it a day. Can I tune that PCM or do I need to switch to a SVT pcm?

Thanks for the heads up. I'm hoping PA has something similar so emissions testing won't be an issue. I'll be talking with my mechanic about it when I'm getting closer to doing this.
As for the PCM, my car is a 98.5 return-style, so I'm assuming I need a 98.5 E1 SVT PCM. Guess its stime to start searching for one...