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Anaerobic sealant on slave cylinder???

K

KAOS_3.0

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
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Location
SE / CLT,NC / ATL,GA
so anybody who's been reading my posts knows I've had a slight leak from my MTX pretty much since I swapped it in. well I did a quick google search to see how much a input shaft seal would cost, and found a thread in a focus forum about a guy with a similar problem, and the advice he got was this:

Other than worn out axle seals (which is most common) the trans could also be leaking between the clutch slave cylinder and bellhousing. That causes trans fluid to drip down the inside of the bell and out that little rectangular hole at the very bottom of the bell. Usually caused by not using the proper anerobic sealant when installing the slave cylinder. Been there, done that.
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which induced a facepalm moment as I remembered swapping the slave cylinder from my old MTX into the new one because the one on the new one was siezed, and didn't know about using any sealant at all at the time...:blackeye:

so what I'm asking, is if this advice applies to the V6 MTX bellhousing or not, and also if not, what the part number is for a front seal on this thing.

also, while I'm in there, I plan to replace "the bolt" with a much harder unit, kept in place by a little JBweld as opposed to loctite. what I'm wondering here is whether the trans has to come apart or not to change the shift turret. I don't think it does, but I was taking the old trans apart when I removed the one I have for a spare, and honestly it was a long time ago and I can't remember much of the process...

if the seal issue turns out to be solved by anaerobic sealant, I intend to also open up the case just to take a look at what my diff looks like and also to take some pics of my output shaft so I can start gathering parts for the final drive swap...

thanks for the input guys, trying to get all these details sorted and purchased before monday so I can do my clutch from monday to wednesday. thanks again
 
11 views and nobody has replaced a slave cylinder?

I did find a related thread one here, but people seem confused in there too:

http://www.contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?29553-sealant-behind-slave-cylinder

and here's a link to the focus thread:

http://forums.focaljet.com/team-tech/620432-common-leaks-mtx-75-a.html

hopefully someone can help here. if it helps, both of the slaves I had have the orange boot as opposed to the green one I keep seeing on here...

does that mean they have the o-ring instead? because I'm willing to bet my leak is from this area for several reasons:

- the leak started after I put this trans in, which involved swapping the TOB

- I didn't use any kind of adhesive in swapping the TOB

- my clutch failed early, and seems to grab better when I don't top off the trans

- the fluid on the bottom of the trans seems to be from around the bell housing area

thanks in advance for the input guys...
 
i went 3000 miles with almost no real leak after my 3.0 swap...i just got my car back running 3 days ago with the sho source bb lim, svt uim, and 65mm tb, and now i'm like a drip every 10 seconds from the slave line boot and the bellhousing...i'm in your club me thinks :(

Steve-O
 
ContourGuy9817 said:
i went 3000 miles with almost no real leak after my 3.0 swap...i just got my car back running 3 days ago with the sho source bb lim, svt uim, and 65mm tb, and now i'm like a drip every 10 seconds from the slave line boot and the bellhousing...i'm in your club me thinks :(

Steve-O
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yeah, I'm personally having a hard time believing my problem has been so simple all along. sure wish a few people would verify my suspicion before I go collect up a bunch of stuff...
 
JB welding the bolt won't do anything besides keep the bolt head from falling into the tranny.

From Terry:

...not so fast guys, read and understand why this is not such a good idea vs our 'Keyed Tower' Mod..

...first off both the bolt and the later roll pin design on the trans tower/turret has major design flaws. The bolt or the pin operates in shear mode all the time when a gear is engaged. the vertical shaft that rotates to engage gear via the shift arm, is always trying to shear off either the bolt or pin as it rotates..

To weld the bolt to the shift arm only saves the bolt head from dropping into the trans when it breaks...which it will..even a bigger bolt will still operate in shear mode..

Welding.. To weld to the PM/Sintered shift arm is a major problem . PM parts have two drawbacks to being welded..1)very hard material does not accept weld very well 2)PM material are a porous powder construction..and I know, from a lot of experience with welding such components during my time at Benteler Automotive, that PM parts retain oil etc, this turns to carbon when heated to weld temps and can contaminate the weld..not a good idea at all ...Parts have to be 100% oil free and even 'bakeing out' parts to remove the oil is never 100% effective...so welding is not such a good idea.

With a key there is no shear force on the bolt or pin and the force is transmitted by the larger surface area of the key. The only way it can fail is to split/crack open the whole shift arm !!.which I can tell you (we did the math here for load,surface area etc..so i know the keyed mod is designed correctly by us!!) has never happend!!

Can tap dance all you wish round bigger bolts, welding bolts etc...neither will fix the root cause of this bad design..only the Keyed Tower will do that...
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zorrex said:
JB welding the bolt won't do anything besides keep the bolt head from falling into the tranny.

From Terry:
Click to expand...

really if you just make smooth shifts and not bang the gears you shouldnt have any problems with shearing the bolt. if you know how to drive you can make smooth shifts that are fast. also, the only time the bolt/pin is in shear is during the gear changing process. once its in gear the detents in the collar hold it in gear and there is little to no force on the shift tower.
 
striker2 said:
really if you just make smooth shifts and not bang the gears you shouldnt have any problems with shearing the bolt. if you know how to drive you can make smooth shifts that are fast. also, the only time the bolt/pin is in shear is during the gear changing process. once its in gear the detents in the collar hold it in gear and there is little to no force on the shift tower.
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No I agree with you, but KAOS seems to think that JB weld is going to help in some way, as does he think getting a stronger bolt. Either way, with the kind of abuse he's giving, it's going to break anyways. :shrug:
 
zorrex said:
No I agree with you, but KAOS seems to think that JB weld is going to help in some way, as does he think getting a stronger bolt. Either way, with the kind of abuse he's giving, it's going to break anyways. :shrug:
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considering the bolt is already a grade 10.9, at least thats what it was on the tower in my Focus (which looked just like the Contour tower), you wont be able to get a stronger bolt.
 
yes, I've recently realized a grade 16 bolt in that size is quite hard to come by. also, the point of JB weld is only to keep the head from falling in. I also shift fine, well when I can keep the trans topped off anyway. I think I'm going to push this mod up to next time the trans is out though, not enough time to source the bolt...

currently I'm having a hard time finding a store that carries the anaerobic sealant around charlotte. I know I can order it online, but then shipping delays will push my clutch job up by yet another week while I wait on it to come in, and I'd rather not have to pay to get my car towed, let alone have the clutch fail at a bad time and get t-boned...
 
So sealant is required or not? I don't remember using any. If the haynes manual didn't say to, then I'm sure I didn't... but I don't have the manual here to look at right now.
 
striker2 said:
really if you just make smooth shifts and not bang the gears you shouldnt have any problems with shearing the bolt. if you know how to drive you can make smooth shifts that are fast. also, the only time the bolt/pin is in shear is during the gear changing process. once its in gear the detents in the collar hold it in gear and there is little to no force on the shift tower.
Click to expand...

saw a car that had the bolt fail after coming off the dyno. owner just slowly drove the car away and then came back around the building with no gears.
 
I used Loctite 518 sealant on the housing, slave cylinder and the shift tower. I would not put the slave cylinder in without sealing it. The input shaft seal is on the slave cylinder but there is no other seal between the slave cylinder and the transmission housing.
 
i dont get whats leaking on mine, its certainly wet from the bellhousing halves and the slave cover, but it never drips more than 1 drop for every 10-30 seconds, and it only seems to leak while running/driving...it drip for another minute after turn-off...:(...it is indead honey colored and not my 300mile old mobil 1 colored though!
 
well guess what now?

the F***ing slave cylinder went out last night so now I've got no wheels and I still have to get the permatex and now find a slave cylinder...

when it rains, it pours, FML
 
hey, few questions, should I get the ordinary anaerobic gasket maker, or the anaerobic high temp flange sealant?

also, whats a good price for a slave cylinder shipped? or does somebody on here have one for maybe less than I'm seeing? I know all the clutch kits come with them and would imagine plenty of guys one here have extras laying around...

thanks
 
gorman said:
did you find out if there is a difference between the "orange and green' slaves ? Mine was green.. and i've had no problems. ... G.
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nope, apparently it hasn't come up yet? one orange one is from a my original 98, and the other (which was seized) was from a 99, so I'm guessing it's the older design? all the ones I'm seeing for sale are green though...

what are you guys used to paying for them? it'd be great if somebody on here could hook me up with a spare of theirs though. I made a thread in the classifieds for this purpose: http://www.contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?58432-Want-to-buy-trade-New-or-lightly-used-Slave-Cylinder-TOB-assembly...&p=831520#post831520

thanks guys
 
sorry it's been a while guys, had to get a TOB on the way. so it's out, and apart on the kitchen floor. chipped teeth on the 99 diff as expected. I'll post pictures later in another thread chronicling my search for a pre-98 unit to hold me over for a while.

for right now though, I've just removed all the shards of metal from the magnet a cleaned everything up. big question here, on the package for the permatex anaerobic gasket maker, it says that one of the mating surfaces needs to be sprayed with "permatex suface prep activator", is this just some kind of surface cleaner/adhesion promoter, or is it actually part of some kind of A/B epoxy type reaction that is necessary for the sealant to work? I didnt read the tube at the store because every time I've heard it mentioned on here it just sounds like you use it like ordinary permatex. if anybody experienced with this stuff could let me know what up here, it'd be a great help. thanks
 
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