-
Welcome to the Contour Enthusiasts Group, the best resource for the Ford Contour and Mercury Mystique.
You can register to join the community.
Airbags
- Thread starter shoe
- Start date
blu_fuz
New Member Classroom vulture
It's not that we don't like to, it is just so expensive that it outweighs practicallity. I believe each strut bag for our car is over $100/$200 each. Then you have to fab custom everthing to install them. Add the cost of install, time, hoses, lines, compressor, tank, etc...... It's just too much money for most people.
CSVT1214
Addicted CEG'er
And from a performance standpoint, the effects are negative. An SVT was built with the purpose of being a performance vehicle. To install a costly modification that adds weight to the car is not something many people on the forums would want.
blu_fuz
New Member Classroom vulture
I would PM crazytalksvt if you are really wondering. Air ride setups are very "road worthy" and handle well, he would confirm that. But it does add weight, not sure how much but performance/comfort wise, it is actually one of the best.
thank you, and im not really building this car for performance, im actually building it for a daily driver show car.
and you are very right about the ride quality, because, my friend has a bagged s10 that ive been helping him work on for 3 years now, and Ive drove it before even without shocks, and it drove way better than my car with new mchpearson struts.
and you are very right about the ride quality, because, my friend has a bagged s10 that ive been helping him work on for 3 years now, and Ive drove it before even without shocks, and it drove way better than my car with new mchpearson struts.
CrazyTalkSVT
Veteran CEG'er
Suicide doors has changed their name and is now Quality Air Ride and they sell the universal strut kits and air management kits, but nothing that is a direct bolt on application for these cars. The "good" universal strut kits runs the geeks off the streets around $885/pair, but that's just the struts. You still need air management. Things like compressors, valves, tank(s), switches, line, gauges, and fittings can be a hefty bill depending on what you choose. $3000 is a pretty easy number to hit for just parts.
blu_fuz for the most part hit the nail on the head when he said the cost to practicality ratio is what stops most people. Just be aware there is a massive amount of misconception that surrounds the topic of air ride. This mostly stems from people not picking a direction, trying to build it to meet any and all directions, and expecting to build it with all the advantages and none of the disadvantages.
Example:
I'm going to build a weight reduced demolition derby car that doubles as a circle track race car and triples as a 9 sec drag car with the ability to win first place at the weekend car shows and maybe drift it from time to time if the need arises.
You get me? :laugh:
Weight addition and ride quality/performance probably are the most common misconceptions. People will talk as if you're adding 800lbs to your vehicle, but the choice in parts and how you mount them is a hugely definitive factor. I could maybe see 30lbs in additional weight on an SVT over stock if you go mildly heavy with parts and install. Obviously, if you over build everything and use .25" plate to mount anything and everything, then yeah, you're adding excessive weight. Although, in the event of building it that way, the likelihood that you're building a project car like Pole120 is very slim.
I don't believe performance is at a disadvantage either. I think it's use in a performance arena is so slim to none that the potentional hasn't been recognized yet and it gets the short end of the stick and poo poo talk is the result. Much like the view that used to surround snowboarding in the early 90's.
With companies like AccuAir developing pre-set ride controllers, accurate to within +/- 5 psi with the touch of a button imagine the possibilities!!
Picture a track car like Pole120's building with onboard air ride control accurate to within 5 psi just by pushing a button. Most the track cars that I've seen like that have a passenger, so you give them the controller. Lets say they find that on certain right turns they can shed some time by altering the pre-set ride height by adding 30psi to the left side of the car and dumping 15psi on the right. Set it as a pre-set. Same for the opposite side, only lets say that Pole's passenger weighs 30lbs more than him and so to compensate 50psi to the left side and maybe 10psi dump. Pre-set again.
So in 3 button pre-sets you have left and right banks covered and the standard ride height to level the car out for the straights.
Tell me that doesn't sound badass or that it's a disadvantage to have on the fly adjustabilities!
I just say it hasn't had enough exposure.
blu_fuz for the most part hit the nail on the head when he said the cost to practicality ratio is what stops most people. Just be aware there is a massive amount of misconception that surrounds the topic of air ride. This mostly stems from people not picking a direction, trying to build it to meet any and all directions, and expecting to build it with all the advantages and none of the disadvantages.
Example:
I'm going to build a weight reduced demolition derby car that doubles as a circle track race car and triples as a 9 sec drag car with the ability to win first place at the weekend car shows and maybe drift it from time to time if the need arises.
You get me? :laugh:
Weight addition and ride quality/performance probably are the most common misconceptions. People will talk as if you're adding 800lbs to your vehicle, but the choice in parts and how you mount them is a hugely definitive factor. I could maybe see 30lbs in additional weight on an SVT over stock if you go mildly heavy with parts and install. Obviously, if you over build everything and use .25" plate to mount anything and everything, then yeah, you're adding excessive weight. Although, in the event of building it that way, the likelihood that you're building a project car like Pole120 is very slim.
I don't believe performance is at a disadvantage either. I think it's use in a performance arena is so slim to none that the potentional hasn't been recognized yet and it gets the short end of the stick and poo poo talk is the result. Much like the view that used to surround snowboarding in the early 90's.
With companies like AccuAir developing pre-set ride controllers, accurate to within +/- 5 psi with the touch of a button imagine the possibilities!!
Picture a track car like Pole120's building with onboard air ride control accurate to within 5 psi just by pushing a button. Most the track cars that I've seen like that have a passenger, so you give them the controller. Lets say they find that on certain right turns they can shed some time by altering the pre-set ride height by adding 30psi to the left side of the car and dumping 15psi on the right. Set it as a pre-set. Same for the opposite side, only lets say that Pole's passenger weighs 30lbs more than him and so to compensate 50psi to the left side and maybe 10psi dump. Pre-set again.
So in 3 button pre-sets you have left and right banks covered and the standard ride height to level the car out for the straights.
Tell me that doesn't sound badass or that it's a disadvantage to have on the fly adjustabilities!
I just say it hasn't had enough exposure.thank you for all the advice crazytalkSVT, but I think im not really going to dump alot of cash into this car, I already have about 1,600 in it, which I know doesnt sound like much, but it is when your go to school, but again thank you for all the advice, because most of my friends make fun of my car, and ask me why do I work on that ugly thing, im so glad to have people that are happy to help and encourage me, thank you, all you guys for all the help and encouragment, again thank you all, and I wish you guys the best of everything.
i've seen cars with airbags that are nothing but pure performance, however they had platform specific setups that are strictly for high performance applications. i don't think that you are going to get that with a universal kit. i think if someone puts airbags on a CSVT and expects it to still perform like it would with coilovers or a full koni suspension is getting their hopes up and will be sorely disappointed.
blu_fuz
New Member Classroom vulture
It will perform equally and most likely even better because of the adjustability.
Here is Crazy's setup:
Yeah man, I remember! Thanks for the compliments. I'm feeling the need to do some more mods to this thing. I got some ideas for winter mods, but funds are tight. So might just be some small aesthetic things.
I'm part owner of a custom shop(Crazy Talk Customs)...We are working on selling the set up as a kit. At which point it will be a direct bolt in kit that the average person could manage to do themselves.
There are things that we are taking into consideration at this point...things like rolling diameters, compressor mounts, and valve mounts.
I went to extremes on my car as far as those mods are considered.
19's tuck up high in the rear and hit the factory rear bumper mounts. So those had to be moved and I cut out the plastic bumper framing structure to fit my compressors inside my rear bumper.
So I kind of went to extremes, which most peoples probably wouldnt want to do nor would it be necessary because alot of what i did could just be mounted on some MDF board in the trunk.
Comp Mounts Raw
Comp Mounts Basecoat/Cleared
Valve Mounts Raw
CrazyTalkSVT
Veteran CEG'er
shoe,
you're very welcome. I'm sure the rest of the guys feel the same when I say that we're here to help.
cetroutt,
"Universal Kit" has become somewhat of a generic term. At least that's how it was intended coming from me. The struts used in the universal kits I was speaking of are still the same 9 way adjustable dampening/performace struts found in pre made kits for vehicles such as Accords, Eclipses, a few Scions, Acuras, etc. The difference is that the manufacturing company hasn't taken the time to fabricate the mounting brackets to attach the struts or the mounts for things like ABS wires, sway bars, and brake lines....basically, the hard to do/important stuff! The kits have been dubbed universal because they are just a bare bones performance air strut with no brackets welded on. Based on your application you will need to choose between a McPherson style strut or a Chapman style strut. After that, the fabrication is all up to you or the shop doing the install.
There are "universal kits" out there that allow you to attach bags to factory struts or aftermarket struts like Bilstein. For a performace/race style fabrication of the the latter probably is best. It's just a matter of picking your poison.
I went with the Air Lift universal struts because I like the dampening adjustments so I can change the rebound of the shock. It helps ride quality in big ways, especially when running bigger wheels with thinner tires. I tossed up the idea of running a coilover shock with bags on top, but every coilovered vehicle I've ever ridden in rides like a stinkin' lumber wagon and I knew it would be much the same with no dampening control.
It took me a while to find the happy medium for my setup and I had to play around alot with the controls as well as the ride height. The feel I like is probably different then someone else, but I've finally got it where I like it. Which like anything, has advantages as well as disadvantages. I'll list them just for the fun of it.
Some disadvantages would be at low speeds of 5-15 mph bumps or cracks in the road feel slightly bigger than they really are. On a woopy stretch of highway (consecutive, gradual ups and downs) the struts seem to try and guess what they should be doing so there is a slight rocking back and forth (front to back) feel. Good news is there is only one stretch of highway I know of where it acts like this here in MN and I've taken different people over it and said, "See, you feel that?" and the responses are 50/50. I'm probably overly picky.
The advantages are so worth it though. I've got big wheels and I can cruise low. At highway cruising speeds I think it rides as good as stock. Plus there is the cool factor of having on the fly adjustments and being able to slam it when I park. Don't tell my wife, but it was worth every ounce of time I put into it as well as every penny! :laugh:
you're very welcome. I'm sure the rest of the guys feel the same when I say that we're here to help.
cetroutt,
"Universal Kit" has become somewhat of a generic term. At least that's how it was intended coming from me. The struts used in the universal kits I was speaking of are still the same 9 way adjustable dampening/performace struts found in pre made kits for vehicles such as Accords, Eclipses, a few Scions, Acuras, etc. The difference is that the manufacturing company hasn't taken the time to fabricate the mounting brackets to attach the struts or the mounts for things like ABS wires, sway bars, and brake lines....basically, the hard to do/important stuff! The kits have been dubbed universal because they are just a bare bones performance air strut with no brackets welded on. Based on your application you will need to choose between a McPherson style strut or a Chapman style strut. After that, the fabrication is all up to you or the shop doing the install.
There are "universal kits" out there that allow you to attach bags to factory struts or aftermarket struts like Bilstein. For a performace/race style fabrication of the the latter probably is best. It's just a matter of picking your poison.
I went with the Air Lift universal struts because I like the dampening adjustments so I can change the rebound of the shock. It helps ride quality in big ways, especially when running bigger wheels with thinner tires. I tossed up the idea of running a coilover shock with bags on top, but every coilovered vehicle I've ever ridden in rides like a stinkin' lumber wagon and I knew it would be much the same with no dampening control.
It took me a while to find the happy medium for my setup and I had to play around alot with the controls as well as the ride height. The feel I like is probably different then someone else, but I've finally got it where I like it. Which like anything, has advantages as well as disadvantages. I'll list them just for the fun of it.
Some disadvantages would be at low speeds of 5-15 mph bumps or cracks in the road feel slightly bigger than they really are. On a woopy stretch of highway (consecutive, gradual ups and downs) the struts seem to try and guess what they should be doing so there is a slight rocking back and forth (front to back) feel. Good news is there is only one stretch of highway I know of where it acts like this here in MN and I've taken different people over it and said, "See, you feel that?" and the responses are 50/50. I'm probably overly picky.
The advantages are so worth it though. I've got big wheels and I can cruise low. At highway cruising speeds I think it rides as good as stock. Plus there is the cool factor of having on the fly adjustments and being able to slam it when I park. Don't tell my wife, but it was worth every ounce of time I put into it as well as every penny! :laugh:
CrazyTalkSVT
Veteran CEG'er
In the last picture, the DOM tubing that forms the hoop that holds the valves in the spare tire spot is actually 1 piece of tubing. It was a huuuuuge PITA joining it to make it even. So much so that next time...if there is a next time, its going to be 2 pieces. :laugh:
I forget about stuff like that sometimes. It's nice to get reminded of self-proclaimed style points from time to time.
ok i see. i'm just so use to seeing the younger crowd around here buying what ever is cheapest and slapping it into their s-10, ranger, tacoma whatever to lower their trucks and not putting the time or effort as crazytalk has (nice looking setup by the way i really like how you have the compressors mounted) then they want to use big wheels and still drive their trucks like they're race cars. i've never seen a universal kit installed in such a way that performs like a system intended for a specific car. i meant no insult by what i had said, i was just going off of previous experiences with "universal kits".
newguyhooah
CEG'er
hey shoe, did you want an air bag set up? I have one that is just taking up room. All you will need is an air tank and switch box.
blu_fuz
New Member Classroom vulture
I'm sure he won't see your post here. Last post was almost a year and a half ago . PM him.
. PM him.newguyhooah
CEG'er
HAHAHA I am an idiot
Thanks
Thanks